Fuel pump help....

[knb53]

I think my fuel pump is shot... having intermittent problems getting fuel to the engine.  I have the Universal 12HP diesel.   Has failed twice now under less than optimal conditions.... tonight we were hightailing it for the marina in the face of a fast moving storm front after being out sailing, engine wouldn't start, and we ended up in the midst of quite a blow for an inland lake, lightening, winds to about 30 mph, etc.  Dropped the sails, threw out the anchor (which didn't hold), so we ended up stuck on a mud bank.... got tossed around pretty good in the storm, and when it cleared, we were towed to deeper waters by some kind folks on a pontoon boat... ended up SAILING into the harbor for the second time in a week, harrowing and humbling.

Anyway, does anyone know if I can buy an off the shelf external fuel pump for my 1989 27?  The thing just bolts to the bulkhead.  But not being too mechanical, I wonder if there is a certain fuel pressure I need to look for in a new pump, etc.  Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Keith Byler

[CaptK]

Hi Keith -

Welcome to the forum.

I have the exact same engine you have in my CP23, and had some fuel pump issues a few weeks back. Luckily, although I found out the hard way, it was a simple matter of re-making the electrical connection - voltage to the pump had dropped due to a corroded connector. Trust me - check that out *FIRST*. Or, you can go through the contortions necessary to remove it, go buy a new pump, go home and test the old one just to make sure it doesn't work, and find out it was just a corroded connector. See?  :oops:

Anyway, fuel pump PSI does make a difference to the injectors, as told to me by a diesel mechanic working on another boat at the time. NAPA sells a pump which is I believe identical to the one I have (can't recall the name right now, although if you look here at the manual at marinedieseldirect http://tinyurl.com/54rjy it may be indicated - I didn't see it with a cursory look). The mechanic told me he thought it might be a 4# or maybe a 7# pump...  :roll:  The pump from NAPA costs about $115.  :shock:  However, NAPA sells a variable pressure 4-6# pump of their own brand for $36, so I bought one of these, and, since my older pump is still running fine now, will keep it as a backup.

So try the pump on a known good electrical connection first (one of those portable jump-starters works great for that). My pump is a bit younger than yours, by maybe 5 years, but you might have the same problem I did, the symptoms were the same (ie; intermittent failures), and, apparently, a $115 pump lasts a good long time.

Good luck! Let us know what happens!

PS - I love my Universal - the thing is rock steady and dependable. Never yet had to change the impeller, no oil burn, no leaks. Other than normal maintenance, I haven't had to do much to it in over 2 years...

[knb53]

Hi CaptK,

Thanks so much for getting back with me... you know, last weekend when the problem surfaced for the first time I changed the secondary fuel filter (the one with the separator on the bottom).  Thought that would do the trick, but it didn't... still no fuel.  Finally listened for the clicking sound the fuel pump is supposed to make, and it wasn't... then found that in all the digging around, I must have knocked the ground wire off the pump.... reconnected that, primed the lines, and off we went.... until this evening.  So I will surely check the other connection.... sounds like great advice.

Is there a disadvantage in using a variable pressure pump vs. the specific # pump recommended?  We have a good NAPA store just outside the marina that has a lot of boating stuff by virtue of their location.  I'm just about frustrated enough and concerned enough re. this problem I would almost get a new pump just to have the old one for a spare.  My wife and I are brand new sailors... this is only the 3rd time we've been out by ourselves on our boat, and each time we've had an "adventure."  (The first time we ran aground in some shallows we didn't know about... our stupidity.  The second and third times had to sail into harbor due to this fuel problem.... I'm getting paranoid! HaHa!)

Thanks again, and hope you'll share any other thoughts you might have...

Keith

[CaptK]

Well, I just wrote this up so I'll go ahead and post it. Will answer your second post here in my next post - LOL.

---------------------------------From other site, for future reference-----------------

--- In com-pac@yahoogroups.com, Craig Maven <craigm@a...> wrote:
> I am no diesel mechanic, but before you replace the fuel pump try
> replacing the fuel filter.  Fuel pumps generally do not work
> intermittently but just quit working.  Filters, on the other hand may
> let enough fuel through for a short run time and then starve the engine
> for fuel.  I've read numerous stories of people who have all kinds of
> crud that built up in a diesel fuel tank that quickly clogs the filter
> at the worst possible times, i.e. in a blow when the boat rocks and
> stirs up all the sediment.

Craig makes a good point. Do you hear the fuel pump clicking when you turn the key?

If not, check the pump.

If so, check the primary filter, which is mounted off-engine, probably on a bulkhead. It should have a clearish plastic base which you can shine a flashlight through to check visually for crud. If you see any, its time for a change. NAPA sells the filters, they'll run you about $22, IIRC. It would also be a good thing to change the on-engine secondary filter at the same time.

If you have to change filters, you will need to reprime your fuel system before the engine will run again. With the electrical pump, bleeding is not a necessity, although it is kinder on your engine and starter. West Marine and Boaters World sell a book on basic marine diesel mechanicing that cover how to do this task. It isn't hard, but, again from experience, once you retighten the bleed screw on the engine, make sure to check it several times over the next few hours of engine running - mine worked its way loose after a bleed once, and pumped a gallon or so of diesel into the bilge before I noticed it.

[CaptK]

Is there a disadvantage in using a variable pressure pump vs. the specific # pump recommended?  We have a good NAPA store just outside the marina that has a lot of boating stuff by virtue of their location.  I'm just about frustrated enough and concerned enough re. this problem I would almost get a new pump just to have the old one for a spare.  My wife and I are brand new sailors... this is only the 3rd time we've been out by ourselves on our boat, and each time we've had an "adventure."  (The first time we ran aground in some shallows we didn't know about... our stupidity.  The second and third times had to sail into harbor due to this fuel problem.... I'm getting paranoid! HaHa!)

I'm not sure about what specifically the disadvantage would be, although I imagine it would come down to how the injectors performed. You know that diesels rely on compression of the fuel/air mixture, and *not* a spark plug to ignite the fuel, right? So, I imagine that the injectors are designed to work optimally with a certain PSI, in order to get the best aerosol spray pattern for the fuel. My diesel book is on the boat, I'll be looking this up to see what it says when I go there next.

My plan is that, for $36 instead of $115, I'll take the chance that it'll work, If it doesn't, then I'll have to wait for favorable wind and tide to sail back in and go buy the expensive pump. Since the mechanic said he wasn't sure if it was a 4# or a 7# pump, I figure the 4-6# pump should work, even if only for long enough to get home. I also don't like the idea of a new $115 pump sitting unused for I don't know how long in the salt air environment until it is needed. Just my somewhat convoluted thinking, I could well be wrong. Diesels aren't complicated, but they do like to operate only within certain tolerances. I hope I don't have to find out anytime soon.

Maybe this is a question to pose on a diesel engine forum out there somewhere? I'll look into that, and if I learn anything else, will post it.

Hey - 4th times the charm, right? And when it can't get worse, it can only get better! My first time sailing on my own boat, a Hobie 16, was on my birthday many years ago, singlehanded except for Samuel Adams. Once I was a couple miles offshore, I not only managed to flip the boat, but went turtle as well (all the way upside down). :oops: I dove under the boat to my cooler, got a cold beer out, and sat there enjoying the sea on my boat until a buddy came out on a Wave Runner and helped me flip her back up.

We all have to learn somehow... :mrgreen:

[knb53]

Thanks to all who sent advice and words of encouragement re. my fuel problem.

My brother-in-law has a good friend who is a diesel mechanic and they came out today.... he found a couple of loose wires that he said could have kept the batteries from charging, but said he thinks the real problem was old fuel lines.... said they were soft enough that they could collapse in use and/or that the ends were starting to crack and they could have been drawing air.

So we replaced all the fuel lines, and the thing is purring like a kitten!  Started and stopped it several times, no problems.

Tomorrow is supposed to be beautiful, have winds of 7 to 8 mph.... it will be the first time everything has been "right" with the boat.... finally got the genoa on the furler last weekend, now the engine seems fixed.... keep your fingers crossed!  It should be a great day.

Kind regards,
Keith Byler