How much improvement from the bow sprit?

[NateD]

I'm watching the boat listings closely looking for a CP23 for next season. There is one nearby that I can afford, but it is an early model and does not have the bow sprit. I know I can order the parts from Hutchins and add one, but once I have the boat I'm sure I'll find many other things to spend the $1,000 on instead of the bow sprit. How much of a difference does it make in terms of sailing characteristics? I know it would be nice for the anchor, but if I keep a slightly larger than head sail up and reef the main first, can I compensate for the lack of sprit?

[Craig Weis]

Don't expect too much. Yea you can hang a 155% lapper up front but your still dealing with a barge with a designed terminal hull speed of 5.4 knots. Although I have seen 6.2 knots as per GPS on my CP-19.

skip. But it looks neat.

[brackish]

IF the average PHRFs are to be believed, you will give up between 3 and 6 points or seconds per mile depending on which version you compare to.  Not worth worrying about in my view.   And the theoretical hull speed for all 23 models is 6.02 knots.

Handling is subjective and I have never sailed an original to compare.

[Billy]

As I understand, it really does help with the weather helm. My 19 does not have a bow sprit, but if I just ease the main she flattens out and it's much better. The 19s have flatter bottoms than the 16s and 23s so the weather helm isn't such an issue.  I do hear the IDA rudders are much more effective.

As for the anchor, this part works great for a fortress (danforth) anchor.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=38751&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10105&subdeptNum=10372&classNum=11229

But I agree with Skip, They do look cool!!!

[Bob23]

   As far as the looking cool part, there is no question. When I was refinishing my bow sprit, I inliad strips of white oak where the grooves are and then applied 7 coats of varnish. Looks great.
Of course it should lessen the weather helm a bit. It would be interesting to experiment with other lengths bowsprits.
   NateD: Where are you located? There is a slight chance "Koinonia" will be for sale this fall. Nothing definite yet.
Bob23
(ps. 23's theoretical hull speed is 6.02 but I've hit 6.4 on a scary reach!)

[bmiller]

There is a slight chance "Koinonia" will be for sale this fall. Nothing definite yet.
Bob23

What?!?!?!?!

[NateD]

   As far as the looking cool part, there is no question. When I was refinishing my bow sprit, I inliad strips of white oak where the grooves are and then applied 7 coats of varnish. Looks great.
Of course it should lessen the weather helm a bit. It would be interesting to experiment with other lengths bowsprits.
   NateD: Where are you located? There is a slight chance "Koinonia" will be for sale this fall. Nothing definite yet.
Bob23
(ps. 23's theoretical hull speed is 6.02 but I've hit 6.4 on a scary reach!)

I'm in St. Paul, MN, but willing to travel for the right boat.

[Bob23]

Well, this is the right boat. I'll keep you posted throught your website if I decide to sell.
Of course, this is about bowsprits, right? If I remember correctly, PeterG, on his old 19 "Beagle" fashioned a great bowsprit at his shop which protruded out further than the factory ones. I only sailed on that boat once but I remember a very balanced helm.
Bob23

[brackish]

I'm in St. Paul, MN, but willing to travel for the right boat.

FYI just came on this morning.  Bowsprit in Minnesota.

http://www.sailingtexas.com/scompac23114.html

[Billy]

seems a bit steep for an '84. better be in great condition w/ LOTS of extras. The sails look a little used.

[Salty19]

I can't answer your question directly, but would agree they do make the boat look good.
And as mentioned it's a great place to hang the anchor, ready to deploy.

Anchor not shown below, but it's on there now.

[Craig Weis]

[NateD]

I'm in St. Paul, MN, but willing to travel for the right boat.

FYI just came on this morning.  Bowsprit in Minnesota.

http://www.sailingtexas.com/scompac23114.html

Yeah, he had that on the local Craigslist for a few days before he posted it on this forum and SailingTexas. I talked with him (Paul), real nice guy. It's sounds like a fresh water only boat since day 1, and he has done some upgrades like electric brakes on the trailer and a new bimini, but they are the original sails. Seems like a nice boat, but my offer was too low for him.

[dman535]

there is an early boat for sale in Michigan - been on craigslist for a few weeks now. I took a bunch of extra pictures when I went to look at it - if you want to see - send me an email and I can send out a link.

I have been shopping for at least a CP23/II boat as in addition to the bow sprint - I prefer the interior layout.

Anyone looking to sell their boat - please let me know.

Derek.-