CP-19 Flying Head Sail AND Spinnaker Together?

[Craig Weis]

Have sailors here tried to sail both the head sail and no pole asymmetrical more expensive star cut spinnaker at the same time?
I have been thinking about doing this and in the waters I sail Comfort & Joy would really need...

1~A second crew member on the tiller. We would need our PFD's for this experiment.
2~Once out past the 'the cut' opening into the Bay of Green Bay; that's big water but not as big as going into Lake Michigan.
3~C&J would then have 14 miles x 30 miles of 100 foot deep water to play in.
4~Then a steady South-West wind of about 8~10 knots.
5~I'd set my 155% head sail lapper. The lapper has the stick-on tell tails fore and aft, port and starboard, in three vertical places.
6~I'd hold off on the main till I get back from the fore deck.
7~Then raise the spinnaker in it's sock after the head sail is up. That way sock and spinnaker will not catch on my top furler head sail piece.
8~The spinnaker sheets, port and starboard, red/green, are routed to the stern cleats, through the bottom opn'g and knotted. These are long lines.
9~I never take the red/green sheets off the spinnaker. The hoisted spinnaker is always facing the right way when the sock is raised.
10~The tac for the spinnaker, with this wind will be the port side and attached to my 'rubber band' on the bow pulpit. Rubber band is good for either tac.
11~Scurry back to the cockpit.
12~Moment of truth. Raise the sock up and unfurl the 'The Big Gun' sail. I can run the sock and spinnaker halyard from the cockpit.
13~Raise the main and see what trouble I can get myself into.
14~I used it once. I always have my knife ready to cut an offending sheet or halyard. I'm not taking a knock down because of a stupid line.
15~I'm very curious to watch those tell-tails to see what they say.

skip. "The Cut' to the right, entering into the Bay of Green Bay, left. Fred's house on the island at Pottawatomie State Park fore ground  is a bit under water.

[mgoller]

Hi Skip,

I have done all sorts of un-orthodox stuff for fun.  I used a pole to fly the genoa out wing on wing with the asymetrical spinnaker on the other side.  You will need just the right wind for this.  Too little and the spinnaker will balloon out and collapse and the genoa will be too heavy.  Too much wind and you will get yourself in trouble with the bow digging in and the rigging groaning.  I'd say about double hull speed of 8-10 knots of breeze would be OK.

The one time I got myself in trouble was coming around a point with the spinnaker out.  The wind shifted to the port side in a gust and my CP 19 heeled over hard before I could release the spinnaker which was under really heavy load.  Don't ever cleat off spinnakers.  If you can't hold the line through a block its too much force.  Letting go of the tiller normally would take care of things but not in the case of a gust to port and a spinnaker out to starboard.

Once off Santa Barbara we hoisted every sail aboard at the same time.  Made our little sloop look like a clipper.

Have fun!

[Potcake boy]

Skip - of course there is no law against it, but I wouldn't.  I douse my jib before I even set up the spinnaker for launch because of the extra tangle of sheets.  A spinnaker can be a little squirrely when the wind suddenly picks up and I'd rather be able to douse it quickly with out having to undo some mess on the foredeck.  Bear in mind however that 99% percent of my sailing is single handed so I must be a little extra careful and I don't like stuff to get out of control.  I've never gotten injured but breaking gear isn't a fun thing either.
Coming home today the wind was from astern so I set the spinnaker on a broad reach.  A bit later the breeze picked up and I felt it was time to douse the chute when suddenly there was a wind shift that caused the chute to collapse.  The shift continued as I headed forward and by the time I was getting the scoop down the whole party was trying mightily to do a headstay wrap even as I had the scoop half way down.  Thankfully I managed to get the wrap undone and the scoop the rest of the way down and all was once again under control.  I am glad I didn't have any further complications like a tangle up with jib or jib sheets.  Besides, I'm not sure you'd get much if any extra speed by that method.  You could just purchase a bigger chute to use on really light days, or do like me and start the motor.  I'm not embarrassed - I didn't buy a CP 19 because it is a stellar performer - I bought it to get me where I want to go in safety and relative comfort - which it does nicely.  My CP 19 never lets me down.  What other 19 can beat into 25knot with gusts and a steep sea of about four feet and get you there without incident - although I was pretty wet.  I had a reef and lots of twist in the main and a working jib so I was trying to keep at 20 degree maximum heeling.  She had a lot of leeway, but kept on going.
Oh, by the way I bought a Yamaha 6hp when the were still available as a two cylinder so I don't mind running it because it's very smooth and really quiet, and like the boat it always gets the job done without incident.

Ron

[Craig Weis]

Hey I didn't think it was such a good idea, might be plausible only with a spinnaker sock. I sail single handed as well.

skip.