Thoroughbreds vs Cow Ponies

[HenryC]

It would be tempting to point to the USA's loss of its long term dominance in
the America's Cup yacht races as a metaphor for the decline in American national
spirit and enterprise, but with the current defender being Switzerland (a
land-locked country!), who defeated the Kiwis (an island nation with a long
nautical tradition), perhaps it's time for the band to strike up "The World
Turned Upside Down".

As a long-time sailor, I've never had much respect for the America's Cup as a
sporting event. I find the comparison of drag racing or NASCAR or Indy,
compared to a Formula or GT road course, to be apt. Race cars should run on
city streets and country roads, day or night, in all kinds of weather. They
should brake, accelerate, and make a variety of turns and maneuvers,
interspersed with numerous turning and straight driving problems, not
just straight lines or left turn ovals. Comparing traditional 12 meter yacht racing
to blue water competition is like comparing bullfighting to rodeo, effete and
effeminate snobbery versus a realistic test of honest, real-world working man's
skills.

Likewise, boats should race on the open sea, preferably out of sight of land and even each other in
all types of weather over transcontinental distances. Anything else is an
exercise in convenience for the organizers and participants, (not to mention the
spectators, sponsors and advertisers), not a test of true seamanship.
Canceling a yacht race because it's too windy is like postponing an automobile
race because it is raining. Victory at sea, as in a road race, should be
evidence of all-around excellence of man and machine, not a triumph of one
over-specialized inbred nag over another.

I've always been a monohull fan myself, but I consider that a manner of personal
prejudice. My preference for traditional hulls does not mean I can't concede a
grudging acceptance of the sea-keeping qualities and breathtaking performance of
modern multihull concepts, exotic materials and computer design and testing.
But I suspect the hydrofoil-equipped airfoil-flying cats and tris in this year's
Cup are not going to be real ocean-going craft any more than were the flimsy 12
meter kites they've replaced. I'll watch this year, just for grins, but give me
Fastnet or the Newport-Bermuda any day.

AArgh!

[Craig Weis]

Really nice and cool boat competive sailing has long a go died.
The boats are ugly.
The crews nasty.
The money way out there.
The competition has fallen to paid professional crews.
Anyone with enough money could buy a win.
Corporate logos everywhere.
And no good looking women manning the ropes.
What a world.



Just keep though pesky French 60 foot tri hulls away from my monohull. Don't want to be harpooned by a surfboard on steroids.
skip.

[brackish]

Well Put, Henry C.  I doubt I'll watch.

A few years back I was recruited to help bring a close friends 44' pilothouse ketch from the Chesapeake to Pensacola.  The boat was a custom, yard built ferro cement that was 90% finished.  My friend was going to finish her out once we got to Pensacola.  Everything we needed to be safe and sail was there, the interior appointments were still partially done, and this trip was the first really good shakedown.

We had some mechanical difficulties with some improperly engineered anti siphon loops that became obvious when we hit heavy weather just north of Ft. Lauderdale.  So we put in there for a couple of days of repairs.  As luck would have it, that happened to be the same time as the finish for that leg of the Whitbread around the world race.  We were actually on the same dock as the race boats.  One boat was in when we got there, two more finished while we were there, and we got to see two more approach the mark as we left.  Now that's racing!  All conditions over long distances.  Hanging out with the crews (read some big time partying) and listening to their stories was a sailors dream.

[mrb]

On this one I,m glad to differ.  First Americas cup boats were real boats and throughout the years they have brought a lot of innovation to sailing, kind of like the pursuit of space has brought a lot to everyday life.  Whether or not all this is needed is not for me to say because every one has his own feelings and beliefs.  However I'm not going to run down the one so called sport that brings some attention to sailing.

Willing to bet a lot of you follow the supper bowl and what in ell does pro football do but make a bunch of couch monkeys.

Don't understand the need to run down the other mans boat.
Melvin

[HenryC]

Sorry, Mrb.  I just can't see these high-tech racing sleds as just "other men's boats". They are barely boats at all.  They are syndicate machines, corporate PR projects.  They are meant to make money for the sponsor:  overly-specialized craft designed solely to win one event.  As for the Super Bowl, I don't care much for any organized league sports, pretty much for the same reasons.  They all resemble Rollerball way too much (the first one, not the remake).

I enjoy playing sports and even used to be a pretty good softball player in my day. I used to race and rallye sports cars pretty successfully, and  love to sail. I even occasionally watch a team sport (usually baseball) with pleasure and I enjoy the Olympics.  But watching the NFL, NBA  or MLB  once or twice a week is inconceivable to me and I find the obsession most men my age seem to have with them pretty embarassing, if not downright creepy.  I couldn't watch any athletic contest that religiously, even if I loved it; not EVEN sailing or sports car racing.  As for college sports, they are a colossal waste of time: old businessmen cynically exploiting young athletes for money.  I always felt school was where you went to learn, not a farm league for the pros.

Spectator sports, from the fan's point of view, is really a form of pornography. You're watching someone else have a good time because you can't participate yourself.  Now a little bit of porn never hurt anyone, in fact, some might even be good for you, in moderation.  But when you start substituting it for the real thing it starts to become pathological.

[HenryC]

I think I was there that weekend!  I was down there doing a photo shoot on that tall ship that was moored just up the dock from some of the Whitbread boats!

OOPS!  Misplaced post!. This was in response to the post by "Brackish".

[mrb]

HenryC
,  I see we more or less agree on the pro sports, that is also my feeling on college sports.   I also agre the boats they are sailing in Cup race is not every mans boat any more than any of the super fast world racers, sleds or multi hull.  I don't even like all the innovative concepts they promote, However to see the Oracle gliding across the water in the light breezes they are sailing in is in my eye a thing of beauty.  I'm sure it is to many others also.  I have just noticed a lot of boat bashing going on on the site lately and that does not seem right.  I spent a number of years around horses and their owners and did not like the way one breed or other was always being run down.  Every thing has it's place or is loved by some one or else it is not going to be around for very long.  It appears that is human nature to disrespect the other persons likes.  Melvin

By the way have you heard which team won today?

[HenryC]

Actually, I'm not down on anybody's boat.  I even borrowed my brother's wave-runner once for a couple of hours and had a blast with it.  I wouldn't own one myself, you understand, but I don't begrudge anyone else having one. Any boat is better than no boat, I'm just whining about the trend to overspecialization (especially for purely commercial purposes) penetrating so deeply into a pastime so committed to history and tradition, not to mention the ability to survive at sea.  Surely, horse people must feel disturbed by over-bred, over-trained and over-medicated thoroughbreds that are unhealthy and prone to injury simply because they might be a little faster in a race. 

Neither do I believe every boat need be a blue water cruiser, there is much to be said for a sailer designed for bay work, coastal cruising, gunkholing, or some other application.  Still, when the racing rule decides what the boats look like, and the rule is determined by the needs to market the sporting event, to make it more friendly to advertisers or promoters, I think the sport has lost its way.  The original America the cup was named after was a stately rich man's yacht that could cross oceans in speed, with comfort.  She wasn't exactly a working boat, but at least she was seaworthy. What these boats have evolved into is fragile greyhounds that can no longer hunt for themselves, and need human assistance in order to breed.

As for who won--Nope.  I can't wait to get home and see some video of those Klingon Birds of Prey rounding the marks.

[mrb]

Oracle won First round, not realy a close race.  Good description Klingon bird of prey.

Melvin

[newt]

I have had a chance to man one of these boats and to take the helm. Yeah, they are real sailboats. And they are exciting. But I wouldn't want one.  They are more like a dingy than anything else. A dingy that accelerates from 4- to 24 knots before you realize it... and takes a dozen people to work it.

[HenryC]

These are all exotic, experimental prototypes.  But some of these concepts can be applied to real world boats and can translate into successful cruising designs.

I had four friends in college back in the 70s who built identical trimarans, Pivers, one of the original fiberglass over marine plywood designs, all in the 30-35 foot range.  These guys were all physics majors, and went about it very methodically.  They all got jobs at Charley Morgan's boat yard, building world-class state-of-the-art racing monohulls and where they had access to first-rate training, tools, advice, and could buy materials in bulk at wholesale prices, and they all worked together. 

It was a monumental undertaking, I saw marriages and careers wrecked because of those boats, but eventually they all hit the water, behind schedule and over budget.  I even got a chance to sail in a few of them, and as advertised, they were fast and seaworthy, with many good qualities, but with the inevitable compromises, too.  Two were sold soon after completion, their skippers simply had put too much of their lives into those boats and they needed to move on to other things. One wound up in the Caribbean with its owner, reportedly, ferrying passengers and light cargo between islands (legally, I hope!).  Another remained with its builder for many years and a decade later I went sailing with him and his girlfriend in the Gulf of Mexico. 

It was a particularly poignant voyage for me. Watching them work that boat together, a real team, was what finally convinced me that it was time for me to ask Sandy to marry me. That was thirty years ago, and I'm still married to my Pittsburgh girl, but I heard recently that my friend Ari finally sold his trimaran.  As far as I know, it is still sailing. 

[kickingbug1]

 technology and money aside---these are sailboats to be sure. as with almost anything mobile the more you spend the better it performs. i sure wouldnt put down the racers---its in mans nature to compete. i do however have friends who quit racing because it lost its "fun aspect" after a while. i just wish i could watch anything sailing on tv even the americas cup

[CaptRon28]

The race is being carried live on www.americascup.com. The start could be as early as 4:00 AM EST. I saw it yesterday and I am very impressed with the BMW / Oracle boat and team. The boat is an engineering tour-de-force, sailed by probably the best crew that anyone could assemble.

For those who complain about the degree of technology and it's obvious expense - You've got different levels of sail boats, racing and crew ability. This is the best around, period. OK, it was billionaire vs billionaire - but this will only improve sailing and sailboats, and some of it will eventually filter down to our level. Name a sport, other competition or anything where varying skill and equipment levels are not present. Anyone on this forum want to get 10 friends together and challenge the New Orleans Saints to a friendly game of football? You know what the outcome will be. Why not race your VW Jetta or Ford Explorer (or anything else) against one of the Audi Grand Touring cars (a diesel no less) in a 12 or 24 hour endurance race? Why should sail boats or crew be any different?

I would jump at the chance to sail on USA-17. I imagine just about all of you would too.

Ron M
Telstar 28, Horizon Cat (soon?)
note that the Telstar has Kevlar sails - which got down to my cost level after years of high tech racing

[botelerr]

Thanks for the link to the cup. Regardless of your position these are amazing boats.. F1  vs NASCAR....?

I'm ready for high tech,,too......... ordered roller furling last week for the 19 ....waiting for the snow................Rob