Forestay or not?

[K3v1n]

So anyone ever think about setting up a forestay to fly a staysail along with the jib instead of a large genoa, say 40% to 60% of foretriangle area. I've been looking at a few Cutters around the web as you can tell and it got me ta wondering if it would work.

In light winds you have both up, as winds increase you reef your main and drop the jib leaving up just the stay which would be a smaller sail. Am I making any sense or just rambling on about craziness.

This would be on my CP19.

-Kevin

[Craig Weis]

Kev, you mean a second forestay. My friend Steve [Captain Rank] has set his 19 up with a forward stay and can fly a small storm jib on what Steve calls a 'soling stay'. This stay actually starts at the masthead and ends on the original fwd sail tack at the bow of his boat. Not at the end of his [new] bow sprit. If Steve had a another sail of some cut he could fly two fwd sails of any size up to and beyond his 135% factory sail'.

I say 135% 'cause that is what came with his boat prior to me installing his [new] bow sprit two seasons back.

My 19 came with a bow sprit and a 155% fwd sail. That big sail is tough to get around the mast when coming about in light airs. When slack this big sail actually ends astern of my sliding compainion way hatch when it is fully closed.

We both fly light 1/2 oz Sail East asymmetrical spinnakers and love this sail as it simply tacks to the bow pulpit and the clew to the stern cleat. Any pulley on the masthead ring will do for a halyard and any cleat at the base of the mast will do to tie this line off.

I don't do this...'cause the moment of effort travels too high up above the deck,  but for a smaller head sail, as needed in heavy air, reel in the sail on the furler. I'm sure you know this. In heavy air I reef and/or sail with just the fwd sail fully deployed but loose. Not sheeted in too tight. skip.

[K3v1n]

Yep! Which I guess makes the existing forestay the headstay, that's where I came up with the term but yes a second forestay. I have the bowsprit so I would attach this one inside the existing and attach to mast say 2/3rds the way up or higher with a running backstay of line when the staysail is in use.

At the moment I only own the original jib(no roller furler) and thinking about different arrangements before I purchase a new headsail. The asymmetrical spinnaker sounds like fun too.

For an example, on a larger scale of course.


-Kevin

[jimyoung]

Kevin,

I have thought about doing the same thing with my 27' except I am considering adding an inner stay (mounting at the existing forward cleat pad).  What I am not sure of is the possible need for running back stays since as you mentioned it would be used in winds where my 160 Genoa is too much.  The addition of a self tending foresail would be cool. Let me know how it goes.

Right now I am working on moving the main traveler forward of the cabin entrance.

Jim

[JohnS]

I think you have to be clear about what you want to achieve with the second headsail. A cutter rig breaks your sail area into smaller more manageable areas and brings the centre of effort towards the centre of the boat as you reef. The downside to the cutter is the difficulty of tacking the jib because it has to pass between the two forestays. Also, if the staysail stay terminates below the masthead you need the added complication of running backstays to counter the load on the mast when off the wind.

On a 19' boat I would seriously question the need to make the sails more easily handled and I would think it almost impossible to tack the jib through the slot - you would end up going forward to walk it through on every tack. Running backstays on a small boat would be something you would quickly learn to hate.

On the 27 the same applies but to a lesser extent - a cutter rig might just be viable.

If the main purpose of the inner forestay is to fly a storm jib then a more satisfactory solution is a detachable inner forestay. This has a hyfield lever connection to a u-bolt on the foredeck and the stay runs from the masthead, negating the need for backstays. In normal conditions the inner forestay is stowed at the base of the mast or at the shroud base; when the wind pipes up you lower, or roll, the jib and then clip the inner forestay into place. hoist your storm jib and reef your main as appropriate. You are now ready to face the storm! The boat will handle better because the CofE is inboard and the head will not keep getting blown off. It should now be easy to heave-to and go below for a hot drink and a nap while the storm blows itself out!

[K3v1n]

The tacking issue, I would assume that you would only fly both sails on a long run perhaps. I like the idea of a detachable inner forestay, this way you can swing it out of the way when not in use. I would agree it would be easier to just use a 135 genoa but the dual sail set up looks way cool if not practical.

-Kevin

[rmonsma]

Years ago I sailed a lot on a cutter rigged sloop.  It was a lot of fun to sail with both headsail and staysail.  It's also a very picturesque rig.  We had a genoa for the boat but only used it once and immediately found out that it is virtually impossible  to tack and pass the genoa between the two forstays.  Even in really light air the hassle wasn't worth the extra sail area. 

One of the beauties of a 19 foot boat is that it's simple to sail. 

Roger

[newt]

I know this is an old thread, but last week I went through sudden 40 plus knot winds which is making me reconsider the cutter rig. We were out on the lake with half the roller jib out and a reefed main and having a blast at 20 knt winds. When the real wind filled in, we couldn't roll the jib up fast enough and broached. I have sailed a cutter in high winds, and it is a better setup. We would have been flying the staysail if we had one, but the jib on the headstay is just too much leverage in near gale conditions, even reefed.  Did anyone actually put up a cutter rig on a CP? Any experiences you want to share with the rig?