Mast Rake

[elibobeli]

Eclipse owners et al,

So after looking at other posts on mast rake, I took a look at my Eclipse.  Last season I tighten the forestay because it seemed loose during a good wind.  Well after sailing the other day, I noticed a little lee helm (meaning when letting go of the tiller the boat turned leeward.  I messed around with sail trim but still had the lee helm.  Reading that weather helm or balanced is much better and safer and knowing that mast rake can affect this, I peeked up the mast and noticed considerable rake forward.  It was easy to tell since the mast is hinged 18" off the deck and the lower part is perpendicular to the boats water line.  I thought to myself that the hinge would prevent much adjustment, but after lengthening the forestay to its longest limits, the rake was still forward.  The hinge will allow the upper part (above hinge) of the mast to go vertical.  I pulled the mast back to vertical without the forestay attached (it is safety pinned front and back to lower mast section and side shrouds were latched down).  With the mast tied in a somewhat vertical position (eyeballing it), I estimate the forestay is 6-8" too short to allow the mast to have no rake.  I have not sailed her since adjusting the rig, but by time I get back to this post I likely will have.  Can you Eclipse owners chime in and let me know if the Eclipse mast does have forward rake.  I am hoping my sail shows a balanced helm or slight weather helm.

Thanks.

   

[jmh123]

I have a balanced rudder and a good weather helm strong winds.

One of the other sailors in my marina approached me Friday about my forward rake -but he had not actually gone down to the boat. He merely compared the angle of my mast with the other boarts on the pier. Our boat is a bit down at the bow when at rest -I presume deliberately so that crew in the cockpit balances the boat out.

But I'll have to check my mast more closely when I get back to the boat.

John

[Steve Ullrich]

Hello elibobeli,

A couple of links concerning balance:

http://johnellsworth.com/writing/nautical/balance_helm/balance.html
http://www.sailingusa.info/sailboat_balance.htm

I tried looking a pictures of the Com-Pac Eclipse with a Google search but I couldn't find a decent view of one that would show mast rake in either direction...  You are sloop rigged, right? It is possible that some degree of forward rake may be appropriate if the Eclipse has a small head sail but I'd be surprised if "considerable" is the way it is supposed to be.  You have already noted the problem with that... Perhaps reduce it somewhat by tightening your shrouds and give it a test sail?

I did locate a video of the Eclipse under spinaker that does seem to show some forward rake at 43 seconds into the clip but I wouldn't call it considerable...

http://www.com-pacyachts.com/com-pac-theater/#compaceclipse

I suggest sending a note to Gerry Hutchins at info@com-pacyachts.com and tell him the same thing you have told us. I'm certain he will have an answer for you quickly.  Let us know what he tells you...

Steve

[elibobeli]

"Considerable" is obviously subjective.  Sorry I couldn't give more technical data on the actual forward rake.  I'll check it the next time out.  But, I did go for a sail with forestay adjusted out as far as the turn buckle will allow and tension taken in on the side stays.  The boat handled great; neutral to slight weather helm, building as winds built.  I could even leave the tiller for extended periouds of time and the boat would stay on point and slowly turn to weather.  Very nice.  No leehelm except on jib alone and with full jib and reefed main.  I guess that is to be expected, since that changes the balance point.

John, perhaps I am just stating the obvious and the Eclipse is designed with forward rake.  I think it is even more apparent because the angle changes between the lower part of the mast and the uppper part at the hinge.  I have found a good balance so I think I will sail abit like it is.  Balanced is balanced with or without forward rake.

Thanks for the links Steve.  My description of the Eclipse is a 110 Lapper headsail with a large mainsail.  No back stay so the mainsail has roach area that I don't know how to describe, but it is not a triangle sail.  I had someone tell me that the mast looked forward in the boat, somewhere between a cat boat and a traditional sloop.  Heck, it looks good and sails good to me, what ever it looks like.

[Steve Ullrich]

How she handles is the bottom line for sure.  There are a lot of factors entering into balance besides the mast rake.  For instance: Forward rake could be necessary to compensate for a large main to jib relationship, especially if the main is getting old and baggy as that would add to weather helm. 

[Craig Weis]

Sailors don't require any rake on any Com-Pac boats. Just stick the stick straight up.
Standing shrouds will be tight on the windward side and a little loose on the lee side.
The lower shroud under the spreader will be the loosest shroud on the lee side always.
Head and back stays only need be tight enough to work the furler correctly.
That's the dope I got from Rich Hutchins at the All Sail Show, Chicago years ago.
It his boats he ought ta know.
Sight up the mast, should be straight with no kinks pulled into it by the shrouds/standing rigging. Lay in the vee birth and look up through the fwd deck hatch.
If your weatherhelming then your sailing out of control. Out of design parameters.Have fun.
skip.

[Glenn Basore]

Interesting subject,

Some time ago I thought my forestay was too loose but after contacting Gery H. he explained to me it should have some play in it.

I didnt have a problem with any rack in the mast and I have no lee helm.

I have not adjusted any of the shrouds although I have been tempted to do so. I checked the shroud tennsion some time ago and found they were consistent with each other. I forget what the numbers were but I do recall thinking they were pretty light load on them.

She seems to sail pretty good for me as she is.

Glenn B.