Mainsheet Hardware - Questions

[ARod]

I've owned my CP-16 for a couple of months now, and I've had it out on the water maybe a dozen times.  Looking at the cleats and blocks, and having a chance to sail, something doesn't seem quite right to me.




First, the cam cleat arrangement on the port side.



You can see I use the swivel cam, but there's another fixed cleat right next to it.  I assume this fixed cleat is factory installed, and the swivel was after-market, installed by the previous user.  Does this sound right?  Or does everyone's 16 have this?  In any case, the block is free to turn and twist, which can bind the rope, so I'd like to replace it.  Can anyone recommend one that they've found to work well?


Now on block on the starboard side.



It also seems like it may have been a replacement by one of the previous owners; it seems a bit to big, and it's a snatch block that opens apart, which doesn't seem to make much sense.  And unless the sheet is being pulled tight, it flops down, scraping against the fiberglass.  This, I was able to fix by wrapping some rope around its base.




Finally, the double-block attached to the end of the boom.



I attach it to the short end of the piece of steel on the end of the boom, leaving the longer end for the toppinglift.  Not sure it really matters, but does everyone do it like this?

I'd appreciate any comments or advice.  Thanks.

Tony

[Bob23]

Tony:
   I don't own a 16 but a 1985 23/2 and my mainsheet arrangement is striking similar to yours. My starboard block is in a standing base so is doesn't flop down but the rest might be factory installed with the exception of the fixed cleat. I'd bet that some industrious previous owner installed that.
   My port block also swivels and turns. It has to in order to follow the boom around as the points of sail change. My end of boom block also looks similar.
   My biggest complaint with this arrangement is that the mainsheet always twists, especially coming out of the starboard block. I have to manually twist the block to untangle the line. Not a big deal, just a nuisance.
   Now my question for you: How are you posting these great pictures here? I'm  not that much of a computer guy so any help you can provide will result in mucho thanks!
Bob23 in NJ

[TeamSlacker]

2'nd pic: yup that looks like the factory setup

3rd/4th pic: similar to factory setup, but my factory block has a 'stand up spring' to hold it up.

last pic: I attach the long end of the 'tab' to the main sheet block and attach the topping lift to the cast hole in the back of the boom. (that casting has two holes in it, I have a small block attached to the forward one for the outhaul, and the rear hole I use for the topping lift)

[Ray M]

The transom setup is factory except the fixed cam cleat is aftermarket.  On my boat, the block on the starboard side is held up with a spring.  Maybe somehow the spring on your block got removed for some reason or perhaps the whole block was replaced with one that didn't come with a spring.

[romei]

The block on the swivel on my setup also has a spring to keep it standing.  Also, instead of terminating the sheet on the top of the pulley, it is terminated on that stainless fixture beside the fixed cleat.  It's just run through and tied with a knot on the end.  Someone prolly tied yours off to the top of the block to make it stand. 

If I were a betting man, by the placement of that fixed cam cleat , Id bet that someone installed it there and had a rope tied somewhere on the back of the motor to keep a motor tilted out of the water. 

[ARod]

Interesting.  So it seems like I had it backwards--the fixed cleats seem to be the aftermarket addition.  And romei, your outboard lifeline idea seems totally plausible.

Bob23: Yeah, the twisting and binding is more of an annoyance than anything.  But I'm thinking of replacing both with versions that contain stand-up springs, like most of you said you had.

As for the photos... When I first joined the boards a couple months ago, I went looking through posts, because I like to be pretty visual with my questions.  I found a great explanation from someone (which I now cannot find) on how to do this.  Basically, you need to go to photobucket.com and create an account.  It's free.  You can then upload photos, and they store them for you.  Once uploaded, you can "insert" the photos into these message posts by using statements like this:

[I*M*G]http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss56/TonyJRod/Com-Pac%20Mainsheet%20Rig/IMG_1181.jpg[/I*M*G]

(Only without the *s.  If I were to remove those *s, this line wouldn't show, the image would.)

Photobucket lets you copy these lines from context-sensitive menus on their site.  I'll look around for that post--it was explained better there.  The consensus seems to be that this is a temporary work-around until the real image insertion feature of this board is working again.

Anyway, thanks everyone for all the feedback so far.

Tony

[TeamSlacker]

The transom setup is factory except the fixed cam cleat is aftermarket.  On my boat, the block on the starboard side is held up with a spring.  Maybe somehow the spring on your block got removed for some reason or perhaps the whole block was replaced with one that didn't come with a spring.

Intresting, the same aftermarket person must have installed my fixed cam and fairlead. As mine is located in exactly the same location, and there is no other holes where the swivel would have been. Figure 8 in the factory manual shows (in reference to mainsheet). 1. Tie sheet to eye (which is the  eye showing in the pic above with nothing attached) 2. thread other end thru inboard sheave (boom block) 3. thread thru deck block (starboard side) 4. thread through outboard sheave (boom block) 5. Thread thru fairlead and secure in cam cleat (diagram shows on transom)

I'm usually not a betting man, but I'll take the above bets

[Bob23]

Tony:
   Thanks for the info on posting photos. I should give it a try. Hope you get your mainsheet thing sorted out.
   Iv'e learned so much from all the folks here at the site; it really is a great source of info, wit, opinions...you name it!
Bob23...sailing after work today!!!Y Yah!!!

[adschmid]

The cam cleat is factory installed. The swivel/cam combo that you are using is aftermarket. I have an 85 cp16 that has not been modified. The snatch block on the starboard side is not stock. I have a normal block with a spring base that holds it up, as others mentioned. The way you rig the factory set up is...tie off the end of the sheet through the stainless eye next to the cam cleat by just pushing it through (starboard to port) and tying a knot in the end (port side. or nearest the cam cleat). Run the sheet up to the double block, through, down to the starboard block, through, back up to the double block, through, down to, and through the back of the cam cleat. It works great this way! Ive never had a problem with jamming, tangling or anything. I would just take that swiveling monster of a block/cam cleat right out of the picture and go with the basic set up that you already have. One other thing. Use smaller diameter for your sheet. I use 1/4", as recommended by ComPac. When I got mine, all the halyards and sheets were over sized and did not run well through the blocks and cam cleats. Especially the cam cleats. Hope this helps. I can send a pic if you need it.

[Smitty]

No swivel on my 79, just the cam cleat and stainless steel eye pictured and I rig it the way adschmid and TeamSlacker described in the above posts.  Works for me.

Smitty

[NateD]

Just the fixed cam cleat on my 81. PO put a 3/8" main sheet on it which jams up in the fairlead. I was planning on downsizing it to 5/16" when I replace all of the rigging next year, does Hutchins really only recommend 1/4"?

[ARod]

Everything you guys are saying makes sense.  My original thought was that the fixed cam cleat was original, and the main was rigged exactly as you say.  My hesitation was the binding that would occur; but I hadn't considered a 1/4' sheet.  Seriously--you don't find that the rope rubs too much against the back of that fixed cam cleat?  I mean, I can see why someone would instinctively want to replace that with a block.  In any case, I think I need to buy myself a 1/4" sheet and give it a try.

Also, the oddness of the starboard block, and y'all saying you have blocks with a springs--it all makes sense now.  Seems like I need to look for one of those springed blocks.  But I'll wait for a sale.  My rope trick will work fine until then.

[B.Hart]

    A po replaced the hardware before I got the boat, but it is still the same setup as shown. I also don't have the spring and get the twisting problem, mostly in light air.   BILL

[TeamSlacker]

Everything you guys are saying makes sense.  My original thought was that the fixed cam cleat was original, and the main was rigged exactly as you say.  My hesitation was the binding that would occur; but I hadn't considered a 1/4' sheet.  Seriously--you don't find that the rope rubs too much against the back of that fixed cam cleat?  I mean, I can see why someone would instinctively want to replace that with a block.  In any case, I think I need to buy myself a 1/4" sheet and give it a try.

Also, the oddness of the starboard block, and y'all saying you have blocks with a springs--it all makes sense now.  Seems like I need to look for one of those springed blocks.  But I'll wait for a sale.  My rope trick will work fine until then.

I'm using 1/4" sheet and yes, since it's doing a 90deg (or more) bend from that fixed fairlead to the boom, it doesn't 'roll' nice out of that fairlead on its own. In light air I usually just uncleat and reach up and push the boom over by hand, or pull some sheet thru the fairlead. Not the best setup IMHO, but it works for now. There is a couple different options of swivel cams similar to what you have that I've seen pictures of, but havent' done so myself. Seems to me the parts for a swivel setup like yours ran in the $100 range. There is/was pics on here of different setups, and is still some pics in the yahoo group.

On the springs to keep the blocks upright. Look on defender, you can buy the spring seperately.