standing rigging change

[kickingbug1]

    i read somewhere- i forget where, that the backstay can be removed from a compac 19 to ease rigging . i would imagine that one would have to change the location of the chainplates and side stay length. just curious.

[Tim Gardner]

Kick,

That place would be on the http://www.ipass.net/sailboat/ website.
Here's what it says

"I would like to thank you for your efforts improving the CP-19 mast raising system with Eclipse mast gallows, boom tender, spreader relocation, and elimination of the backstay. I'd like to improve my '87 CP-19 with these upgrades. I'm in the process now of restoring my mast and replacing spreaders, so this is a great time to consider these improvements. Would you consider providing a kit with new parts, spreader geometry, and detailed instructions? Regards

Answer: A picture is worth a thousand words and that picture is on Web link "What's New". The picture shows the general arrangement of the components for a modified installation. You also need to know that the spreaders and backstay are eliminated in this modification. The uppers go to a new position that's halfway between the ports (the upper chainplates are angled a little to match the new shroud angle). You remove and use the original chainplates in the new position. The lowers are still connected at the old position. The forestay doesn't change. That's it for the sailing configuration. Total parts required are the bolts and nuts for the relocated chainplates and a backing plate for each new chainplate location.

A mast raising system with the sail on the boom is a little more complicated. A mast gallows for the CP-19 cost $550. It can be shipped by UPS and connects to your stern pulpit. No drilling required. It is easy to install. You can also add a device for folding the boom. It's a small stainless steel extension that connects the boom to mast at the boom gooseneck. The extension with the connecting pieces cost $50. Storing the sail on the boom is a good idea, but raising the mast with the boom connected is not my cup of tea. I lay the boom on the deck when I raise the mast.

To make raising the mast easy, we made the mast gallows as tall as possible. You can trailer with the mast resting on the gallows and connected to the mast step for short distances. The mast should be moved to a position between the gallows and the forward pulpit for long distances. If you don't mind taking the boom off the mast, the mast gallows will work well by itself. Getting rid of the backstay and starting the mast lift at a higher position makes raising the mast much BETTER. "

Click on the site for more info.

TG

[Craig Weis]

Raising my CP-19 mast is a snap. I never undo the fwd, stern or side standing rigging or shrouds.  Just get the mast in the Tabernacle with a slack back stay and up she goes. Tighten the back stay after the fwd fuler is pinned. I don't know if I'd sail without a back stay, and never with a spinnaker in heavy air. Upped and downed the mast on the water once tied to the dock on Captain Rank's CP-19 Wind Rover. skip.

[Tim Gardner]

Skip,

My rig is standard as well.  However, I think the Eclipse is rigged without a backstay, similar to the description above, so it must work.

TG

[kickingbug1]

    thanks a lot for the info. there is a cp19 for sale in the area and i think if i upgrade i would loose the backstay and make the change in the chainplates. the cp16 is so easy to rig by myself i would hate to loose that capability. now to make a few measurements in my garage. thanks again

[Tim Gardner]

Kick,

My boat stays in her slip year round, but when I do trailer her out, I've never needed help with the mast stepping.  It is maybe even easier than the 16 in the water, because the boat is wider and inherently more stable.  I wouldn't change anything till you try it out.

TG

[JustStartin]

Hello,

I don't want to confuse the issue regarding raising the mast on a CP19, but I've begun using a rather simple method!  Drive the tow vehicle forward, with trailer and boat attached down the lauch ramp.  This puts the bow of the boat down, thus making raising the mast rather simple.  Then, back up the ramp, turn around and back the boat down into the water!  Can this method be any simpler? 

Happy sailing!

David Serrell
Coats, NC

Kick,

That place would be on the http://www.ipass.net/sailboat/ website.
Here's what it says

"I would like to thank you for your efforts improving the CP-19 mast raising system with Eclipse mast gallows, boom tender, spreader relocation, and elimination of the backstay. I'd like to improve my '87 CP-19 with these upgrades. I'm in the process now of restoring my mast and replacing spreaders, so this is a great time to consider these improvements. Would you consider providing a kit with new parts, spreader geometry, and detailed instructions? Regards

Answer: A picture is worth a thousand words and that picture is on Web link "What's New". The picture shows the general arrangement of the components for a modified installation. You also need to know that the spreaders and backstay are eliminated in this modification. The uppers go to a new position that's halfway between the ports (the upper chainplates are angled a little to match the new shroud angle). You remove and use the original chainplates in the new position. The lowers are still connected at the old position. The forestay doesn't change. That's it for the sailing configuration. Total parts required are the bolts and nuts for the relocated chainplates and a backing plate for each new chainplate location.

A mast raising system with the sail on the boom is a little more complicated. A mast gallows for the CP-19 cost $550. It can be shipped by UPS and connects to your stern pulpit. No drilling required. It is easy to install. You can also add a device for folding the boom. It's a small stainless steel extension that connects the boom to mast at the boom gooseneck. The extension with the connecting pieces cost $50. Storing the sail on the boom is a good idea, but raising the mast with the boom connected is not my cup of tea. I lay the boom on the deck when I raise the mast.

To make raising the mast easy, we made the mast gallows as tall as possible. You can trailer with the mast resting on the gallows and connected to the mast step for short distances. The mast should be moved to a position between the gallows and the forward pulpit for long distances. If you don't mind taking the boom off the mast, the mast gallows will work well by itself. Getting rid of the backstay and starting the mast lift at a higher position makes raising the mast much BETTER. "

Click on the site for more info.

TG

I wouldn't recommend it if you live in a well populated area such as myself and have a line of boaters waiting to use the ramp.

[Potcake boy]

If it's ease of raising the mast that you are seeking you may wish to examine another option. My 19 came with a typical mast raising system that I believe was from the factory. It consists of lower stays that connect to each side of the mast about half way to the spreader and to ubolts on the deck. These steady the mast when the shrouds are slack. The raising mechanism is a whisker pole which fits into a hole on the forward side at the base of the mast. There is a four part system which is like a main sheet system that connects to the outboard end of the whisker pole and to the stem fitting. Easy as pie. In fact the four part system is used as my main sheet with the mid boom sheeting conversion I did on my CP19. I slck mthe back stay to ease removal of the bolt securing the furler to the stem fitting, but am considering one of those quick release tensioners to simplify the task. I do concur with some of the comments about sailing downwind. I know many small boats don't have a backstay because the dynamic stresses are large enough to be a problem (Sunfish have unstayed masts). If you eliminate the lower shrouds you will need to relocate the uppers to a lower point on the mast, or risk an out of column cmpression failure of the mast. If you do that you will need to relocate the forstay to the same position to offset the shrouds or you will get reverse mast bend and possible mast failure.
My Dragonfly 25 trimaran had no back stay because it carried a full batten sail with extra roach and had only two shrouds. BUT it had running backstays which were attached to the aft end of each ama - 20ft apart, and the shrouds were also 20 ft apart. The mast had diamond stays to keep it in column as it rotated.
I'm no marine engineer but it seems that the need for a second set of shrouds and spreaders is a product of the mast height and the shroud base. I'd be very reluctant to alter a boats standing rigging, but would surely recommend seeking the advice of an engineer or even Compac.

You might also read up on rig types and the implications or consequences of such a change on other aspects of sailing and sails. There are good reasons for the popularity of the 19's type of rig, and is even touted in sales lit. for the 19s.

Sailing - soaking up the sun - relaxing ~~(\~(\~(\~(\~~

Ron

[mrb]

Kickingbug1

So its been a few days now, do you think your going to go for the 19.

If you do I would like to give my opinion on loosing the back stay to make mast raising easier.  I would advise against it for the simple reason that in my experience the back stay does not affect the raising of mast. Just like the shrouds there is no need to unhook it when lowering mast and its no more trouble to secure it for transportation than the shrouds.

I stepped the mast on a 21' for quite a few years by my self and only trouble was a few times had the back stay tangle with something else but that was my fault for not paying attention.

Moving those chain plates entail a lot more trouble than just unbolting them and moving them back a ways.  You need to make sure they are lined up correctly with the angle of shroud pull then make sure of water proofing and so forth.

Lots of Luck
Melvin

[Bob Condon]

Skip is right on this one...

I do not use gin poles or anything...

My mast has a roller furling on it which might change things just a little...


Here is what I do by myself:

Set mast end into step (tabernacle?) and bolt in with the mast sitting on the stern rail

Loosen the backstay as much as you can
Make sure that your standing lines are free and clear because it is a pain in the backside to
have the mast half raised and the lines get caught on winches and cleats!

I take my Job/Genoa halyard (goes off the front of the mast at the top)... secure the end that would
go onto a winch, onto a cleat on the mast. place the other end over the bow of the boat. The goal is when you get the
mast upright, you will grab the front of the halyard and tie to the bow rails to keep the mast upright (like a second set of hands)

Go into the cockpit and put the mast on your shoulder and start to left while walking to the mast step
pushing the mast upright. Once it is upright, tie halyard to bow rail, but not too tight.


If you have a forestay of a roller furling, you want to connect that to the chainplate in the front, put in the pin and
a circlip or cotterpin to make sure it does not come out. pulling on the halyard will help get the pin in the chainplate.

If pulling on the halyard is not getting you close to inserting the pins, look at your standing rigging to see if something is caught... using a lot of pressure should tell you something is very wrong..

After the pin is in the chainplate/forestay/roller furling, untie the halyard,

tighten the backstay to make the system taut but not tight... Adjust as necessary once sailing.


Now mount boom etc...My sidestays stay at the same adjustments
===

I did use a piece of plastic electric conduit to have a 10' pole and made a U on the end so I could
lift the mast up but stopped using it because it was just one more thing in the way...

Now go sailing!