cp16 main sail dimensions

[roland cobine]

   my cp 16 came with a replacement mainsail from supersailmakers. the boom appears to be lower when the boat is rigged. I'm thinking that the sail was cut different from the original, (longer in the leech and luff). could someone provide the correct dimensions. another problem i have encountered is that the main sheet wont hoist the sail to the mast head (couple of inches short) also contributing to the height of the boom.

[romei]

Funny you should ask.  I just looked this up a few days ago.  My problem is, the lake where I camp and sail has 2 low bridges that I am about 8 inches too high to go under.

I'm thinking of building a gaff rig over the winter, so I was looking at making my mast 2 feet shorter than it is now, but want to keep the same square footage of sail area, or perhaps slightly more.

Anyway, check out this link for your dimensions.

http://quotesys2.sailrite.com/ShowAd.aspx?id=4805&SourceID=%200%20&BoatName=COM-PAC+16

[Potcake boy]

Romei,
That should make a very classy looking 16. I usually don't like chopping up boats, but I think your idea is not only practical because of the bridge issue but should enhance the classic look. If it happens I trust you will thrill us all with some pics.
Good luck on that,
Ron

[Pat McL]

Romei,

Interesting that you bring this up. I have been seriously considering converting to a gaff rig myself. I have no interest nor need to lower the mast, but most likely would have to build a longer boom. From the reading I have done, the principle argument against the gaff is the slightly lower pointing capability it provides. I figure that this is a moot problem in the 16 as it points low anyhow. Gaff rig should not affect this at all. Lowering the metacenter appeals to me, as does the ability to scandalize the main with the gaff halyard. Looks would be a definite plus.

Problem as I see it, is the center of effort. Dimensions of the main will take some expertise in the design in order to keep the helm balanced using the stock (110%) jib. I am very happy with the balance I have now, and don't want to mess it up. Have thought to talk to Hutchens for advice, as I am sure this idea has crossed their radar. I will be watching your posts with interest as this could be a very viable idea.

---- Pat

[Paul]

Romei:

Very cool link!  Been thinking of Sailrite, but hadn't pursued it lately.

Also, these guys http://www.ipass.net/sailboat/ are known for modifying CP's.  Check them out.  They have some DIY info, although I have never performed them.  They have some neat ideas.  They have changed sloops to gaff rigged cats in the past.  I don't readily see photos of the work, but feel free to contact them as they are friendly.

$0.02

[romei]

Wow, thanks for the nice support, folks!

If you contact Hutchins, let me know what they say.   

I am determined to get under those bridges.  I have a fairly high rate of success when I get determined :-)

Last week I sailed around a bit under just the main and was impressed at how well she handled.    Optimal performance isn't my main goal.  I'm fairly new to sailing and have only ever sailed a Snark and the CP-16, so I'm not even sure what great pointing feels like anyway.  I love sailing and I love taking my dog swimming.  He jumps around all over the boat and it barely lists when he does, and that stability is of great importance to me.  That's one of the reasons I love this boat.

Here's the plan.

In my mind, If the wind blows and it pushes and pulls my boat, I'll be happy.  I'm not really planning a lot of math and design.  I'm going to laminate some 1x4's and make the mast about a foot and a half or 2 feet shorter than the original mast.  I'll laminate some more to make the boom.  The boom will be the same length as the original.  The top spar will prolly be laminated 1x3's and the length will be calculated by how long I have to make it to keep the square footage of the sail area the same or perhaps a few feet larger than the original sail area.  I plan to take the tang, shrouds, forestay, jib and spinnaker pullys off of the original mast and attach them to the new rig at exactly the same heights so I can still use the same head sails that I have.  I'll put another pully at the top rear of the mast to raise the top spar. 

At first, just for cost's sake, I'll have a sail made at the local Amish canvas shop for about $150 and have grommets pressed in every 4 or 6 inches along the top, front and foot.  If the thing works at that point and shows potential, I'll spend the cash and have a real sail made from dacron.

I really don't think the whole project will cost me more than $250 or $300 and my time to see if it'll work.  If it does, of course a nice sail will be added to that afterwards. 

All advice, insight and experience is welcome.

[Potcake boy]

Romei,
If your plans for wooden spars are to enhance the esthetics then disregard the following, however there may be a far easier and less expensive way to reach your goal of this conversion.
I owned a Picnic Cat for a while and as I recall the components of the rig are made of pretty much the same stock as the other trailer CPs.
You could benefit in either case by getting a good look at the CP cat rigs. It's very easy to shorten your mast (just remember the precaution: measure twice, cut once - LOL).
The sixteen is a willing convert as it has three stay rig and no backstay to worry about, as your gaff spar will exceed the triangle of a Marconi sail.
You might even check to see if the Picnic sail would meet your needs, it's 109 sq.ft compared to 72 sq. ft. on your sixteen so it is a little bigger than your main, but of course has a lower center of effort. I suspect that the foot may be a bit longer so you may indeed pickup some additional weather helm. The advantage is that you can find a sail ready made and cutting gaffed mains seems to be something of a lost art with many sail shops. Getting a perfect sail set can be a problem if the intersection of the gaff isn't cut correctly.
Based on my experience with the Picnic Cat I agree with your deduction on pointing ability. Actually I was pleasantly surprised at how well she performed. The gaff on the Picnic goes closer to vertical than some and so you have a fair amount of luff.
But going back to your original statement of purpose, and what I perceive as your intended use I just can't help but feel that you may be ahead of the game by considering a Picnic Cat purchase. The 14' cat comes in a daysailor only configuration but with some addition canvas from the Amish canvas shop overnighting is a possibility. Your dog would love the open cockpit and she couldn't be easier or safer to sail. The mast height is only about 17'-18' feet off the water and the gaff can be easily dipped.
As a daysailor the Picnic Cat has no peer, and for that purpose I'd buy another in a heartbeat. Check the used market, as with all CP boats if cared for they hold up well. Plus your sixteen would be worth a lot more on the used market before being cut up.

Be careful of what you wish - you may end up buying it

Ron

[romei]

Thanks Ron, lots of very good information.  One thing that everyone should know though.  In your post you said "Plus your sixteen would be worth a lot more on the used market before being cut up."

I have no intention of making any alterations what-so-ever to the original equipment or boat.  I'll simply be borrowing hardware from the original mast.  If the idea doesn't work, I'll be able to bolt everything back on the original mast in less than an hour and put it back the way it was.

Anything that I need that can not be easily removed from the original mast will be purchased separately.

When I'm done I hope to have something that looks similar to this http://www.classicboatshop.com/sailplan-gaff.html

Again, if it doesn't work, I'll put it all back the way it was.

[Paul]

Worthy goal to say the least!

You may want to draw out a plan considering the height of the gaff above water and, more importantly, height of the mast.  You still need considerable mast height to handle the gaff.  Maybe you've already considered this; reverse engineer it.  Figure the max height allowed for the area you  sail.  Insure the mast is safely under this measurement, then design the rest of the rig.  See what you come up with.  By the way, sweet looking inspiration. 

Also, Dweyr makes the aluminum spars for lots of boat, including Com-Pac.  Considering how short the mast may end up, you might be able to rationalize the cost of Al instead of wood.  Not that I have anything against wood, mind you.   Just another option.

[romei]

Well, you don't see dacron gaff sails much on ebay, but I found and bought one last week cheap.  It's a little large for what I need but I think I can have it trimmed down and make it work for a little more than what it would have cost me to make a canvas one from scratch. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=180281567360&rd=1

The luff is 9' and the foot is 12.  The head is a little over 7'.  I'm thinking I can have them shorten the head and foot, each by about 30%.  (Maybe 30% from the foot and 40 % from the head) and trim it off the rear of the sail.    Without busting out a calculator, I think that would get me close to the square footage that I'm after.  I'll lay it out on top of the original to get a better feel for it next week or so.

I just couldn't pass up the deal, and I'm sure the Amish folks up at the canvas shop can do the re-sizing and sewing work. 

Anyway, I'm going to keep the 9' luff.  The original tang is about 13 feet from the mast step and the bottom of the boom is 19" from the mast step, so that will give me roughly 2 1/2 feet of mast above the throat to hoist the top spar.     With a 13 1/2 foot mast, I'll be 2 1/2 feet lower than stock and well below the bridge.  Currently, I'm 21' high from the water line and the Bridge is 20'4"

[tom t]

IT SEEMS NO ONE HAS ANSWERED THE ORIGINAL QUESTION, SO HERE'S MY 2 CENTS.  FIRST, CALL HUTCHINS FOR DEMINSIONS.  2ND DUCKING THE BOOM FROM WHAT I HAVE READ ON THIS FORUM & IN MY 16 IS NORMAL.  3RD IF YOUR MAIN DOES NOT GO AS HIGH AS YOU THINK, CHECK IT WITH THE MAST DOWN TO DETERMINE THE PROBLEM. HOPE EVERYTHING WORKS OUT.

TOM

[John J]

steve,

Call Dirk at National Sail Supply in Florida.  He sells Rolly Tasker sails and can give you the exact deminsions for the main sail.  The sails on my CP 16 which you sailed on were from him.  Google National Sail Supply and use their 800 number.  It may be that someone ordered longer sails to replace the originals or that these sails have stretched.  Let me know how you make out.

John J

[Craig Weis]

I have no response from sail makers SailEast for the size of any Com-Pac 16 main and head sails.

All I know [and this is of no help] is that from top-O-mast to water on my C-P 19 is 25 foot zero inches. Then add 30 inches to this for my radio whip. Oh speaking of...

Most people who have the standard radio for VHS and have added a am/fm for entertainment can have one antenna do the job of two with a Shakespeare sold device designed to receive the broadcast signals from all of the above. It's small, easy to hide so it can not be seen in the boat's cabin, it's nifty, it works, and it's cheap. I can listen to am or fm and monitor VHS. VHS cuts out the am or fm.  Must be a series of electronic shunts I guess. skip.

[ronfmflorida]

FYI - 1979 CP16 Original Mainsail Demensions:
Foot: 7' - 11"
Luff: 15' - 4"
Leech: 17' - 0"

Headboard 4" x 5"
Battens:  Top 18" x 1.25"  Mid 21" x 1.25"  Bottom 18" x 1.25"

Pictures are available in the gallery under 1979CP16