Coming about in high wind

[Bryan]

 We bought a 1982 Compac 19. 
We have expericed difficulty coming about when winds are 20 to 25 knots.
We are not reefed down.
We usually end up jibbing to get the boat to do what we want.
We are assuming the sails are original equip. (Johnson Sails?)
Is there anything else we should know?.......Are the sails at the end of their life?
Has anyone else experienced this issue?

[Paul]

It's likely you'll have better control when reefed.

The sails might be stretched out too far if they've been used a lot.  A sailmaker could best evaluate this.

Jibing the boat in a 270 degree clover leaf is a viable option, but why do it if you can tack instead.

Consider the balance of the rig and boat.  There may be an issue with the rake of the mast.  For that matter, make sure you are drawing the sails, ie lift, and not stalling them.  A stalled sail looks pretty, but won't get you to windward efficiently.

Finally, what kind of rudder do you have?  See Idasailor rudder remarks throughout this forum.

Let us know what you come up with.  Hope this helps.

Paul

[mgoller]

I have a CP19 without an Ida Sailor rudder.  When I bought it it had the original 20 some year old sails.  They got kind of tatty after a hurricane wind and I took them to North sails.  They showed me how blown out they were.  I didn't know.
The curl of the sails or the fattest part should be near the leading edge to create lift.  Turn a sail on its side and it is a wing.  The lift needs to be near the leading edge.



My sails caused the boat to heel in strong winds because the vaccum wasn't near the front but midway back.  This hurt speed and power obviously.  The only way to tack in really stiff winds was to tolerate the heeling make some speed and throw the rudder over hard.  It was a stressful way to sail in strong wind.
Tacking in strong winds was hard!  I had to reef to keep from heeling.

After installing the new sails the difference was remarkable.  No more excessive heeling.  Good control, easy tacking and good balance.  Even on a very tight tack I had forward motion.
Racers can replace their sails every year.  They use them hard and need every bit to windward they can get.  Depending on how often you sail, you can get five years or so out of yours.

A couple years ago, I lost my motor and had to tack for three hours in 35 mph headwind to get back to the harbor.  Finally, I tacked straight into the harbor three times between big rock walls 75 feet apart.  Thank goodness I had good sails and a good boat.

[Bryan]

Thanks for all your help / suggestions!!!!!!!!!

We are using the rudder that came with the boat.  I am going to assume that it is the original rudder that Hutchins supplied with boat.

I have visited the Idasailor web site and it looks interesting.

I am suspect of the sails and overall balance of boat after reading both of the replies. (After all the sails are 26 years old and I' m not sure of their history.)

Again, thanks for the help!  We are pretty new to the compac 19 and we know its a great boat!

I'll probably have many more questions as we gain experience with the boat.

This web site is great and so are you guys!!!!!!

Thanks Again

[Paul]

Good luck and let us know.

[Bryan]

I have a question about mast rake on the 19.................

Do I need a special tool to check mast rake?

We have a tool to check the stay tensions.....Does Huthchins have parameters where these should be set at to balance the boat?

Would you share with me what yours are set at?

Would appreciate the help!!

Thanks,
Bryan

[Craig Weis]

Put that mast straight up and down. Vertical from what ever waterline you have. Not fwd, not back. skip. Sight up the mast from laying on the vee birth and looking at the mast through the opened fwd. hatch. You'll be looking for port/starboard mast bend applied to the mast from the side standing rigging going to the chain plates.

Sail with the standing rigging a bit loose. And the sails too. No need to "squeeze the water out of the wire rope".  This just makes the mast want to push through the cabin top and out the bottom of the hull. As a matter of fact the lee tack will be looser then the windward tack. No matter what side you tack on, you'll notice the slop.

[Paul]

Regarding special tools:  no.  One way to measure rake (that's fore and aft) is to hang a small line from the mast (maybe from the spreader, close to the mast or tie a rolling hitch as high up the mast as you can reach) and add a weight to the end, say a couple of large washers.  Basically a plumb bob.  Make sure your weight on the boat does not influence the test.  This will need to be done on a calm day.  If the line falls aft of the mast, then your mast is raked aft.  If forward, then raked forward.

According to Hutchins, the CP-16 and 23 need a little forward rake, while the 19 needs a little aft rake.  Somewhere in the order of three degrees if my memory serves.  Once you've determined this, you can play with the rake and check performance and handling.  True, you do want the mast straight laterally.  I usually count the turns taken on the turnbuckles as well as sight up the mast.

Hope this helps.

[Bryan]

Paul / Skip,

Thanks tons for the advice.  Will be heading back to Lake 8-15.  Won"t be able to do anything until then.

Thanks for your time and patience!

I'll let you know how we come out.......................

Thanks again
Bryan

[Craig Weis]

High winds. Usually means that the wind is up and so are the waves. I come  about in an orchestrated dance.

Let's say that the C-P 19 is basically surfing along and she zooms forward only to be pulled back. I like sailing like that. We have a good tack going, not wing to wing. Many don't care for this...I did this for hours once in Lake Michigan. had a ball.

To come about in high seas. Seas that the 'boat driver' is not able to see over the waves in general. Good high waves. The wind howling! White caps.

To come about, get ready.
Sheets un-cleated, pull the tiller and drive the boat low and deep BETWEEN the waves. Now your half way around. May be a little more and the boom swings, the head sail goes slack and the bow is looking to climb into the next on coming wave as she starts to tack-up. Don't over steer, and don't delay. You have to be sailing or be making way, before the next wave otherwise the boat will flounder, all speed gone, the main sail searching for a tack as she wallows about like Uncle Ned's lost bobber. The boom sweeping and everything below decks is clanging and the darn 150 % lapper sail just flops back and forth also looking for direction. You'll get direction and control but maybe pound a bit till the hull makes headway and things settle down.

Simple. Be brave. Be bold. Be smart. think it through before pulling that tiller. Sense the timing. skip.

[Bryan]

Thanks Skip for the Advice!!

Will certainly heed all advice given.  Have been sharing all information with my Father......

We are Partners in crime with the Compac 19. 

Thanks Again!

Bryan

[Bryan]

Paul / Skip,

Just a F.Y.I. ..........................

After really looking things over, we discovered that the mast was raked way to far back toward the Stearn.

Using a crescent wrench attached to the main halyard, our make shift plumb bob allowed us to adjust put the mast where it belongs.

We did all the work Sat. morn., and later that day we had a great sail on Lake Superior.  The boat handled just perfectly!

Thanks Again for all your wisdom!

Bryan
(Probably more questions to come)

[Craig Weis]

For this boat up and down masts work well.  Too far astern....Thanks for the thumbs up. skip. Sail big water and enjoy. skip.

[Paul]

Glad it worked out for you.  They are great boats, aren't they.