Rudder Control Handle

[Steve]

Has anyone upgraded their rudder with the new CP23IV rudder control handle? Right now I use a deck brush and handle to push the rudder back down after touching bottom. I'm also not too crazy about how the rudder stays down by friction either. Has anyone improved this function?
Steve

[kchunk]

Know what ... we should talk to Hutchins about a "group buy". Maybe they'd give us a really good price if we can get 20 or so firm orders. I'd venture they would go for it. My most recent price list has IN00R0020 RUDDER ASSEMBLY 23 $694.76 EA. Is this what you're talking about. I know the 23/4 comes with a foiled rudder, but I haven't seen it and know nothing about the handle. This price is already better than Idasailor's retail.

Maybe 10% for an order of at least 10 and 20% for an order of 20?

I dunno...just thinking out load...

[Mundaysj]

Ok Steve... not to be completely blonde here... but... what is a rudder control handle?  The only handle on my rudder would be the tiller.  And if my rudder hits bottom, I don't think it is going anywhere because it has a little bolt that runs through a hole that keeps it in place.  When trailering I pull out the bolt and pull on the lanyard to raise the rudder.  Am I missing something??

[Bob23]

Steve:
   I try to tighten the lever on the rudder housing with a boat hook or if I'm in a extreme mood, I'll venture down the boarding ladder to tighten it. That's about it. Greg, if we could get a good price, you could count me in. I spoke with Rich Hutchins awhile ago about a foiled rudder and control handle. He wanted me to send my blade rudder down thar so they could match it up. I don't want to take that route because if I did a rudder upgrade, I'd want to keep my old one for a spare. Being an ex foreign car mechanic, I'm a spare parts freak!
   Sounds like they've conquered the problem of the canting-back rudder with the control handle. I wish they would upgrade thier website once in a while...I'd like to see more detail on the 23/4. 
   Bob23, makin' coffee in NJ! Fresh ground!...can you smell it?

[mrb]

Yes Bob23 all the way down in Arkansas, are the donuts ready.

I checked Hutchins site today and they list the 23 IV but show the older model. Kind of confusing.

On my 16 the rudder stays down with just a little friction and I can pull it up with a tug on the lanyard.  I have the foil rudder and it appears heavy enough to stay down without a lot of friction.

I'm not sure I would want to put a bolt or pin in rudder to keep it down as Mundaysj describes.  Probably keel protects the rudder most of the times but objects sunk just below the surface can do strange things.  Coronado had a spade rudder and was a point of concern for me.  Has any one tried rigging a line to front of rudder and leading that up through a turning block then up to a jam cleat on tiller.

Confused in Ar.
Melvin

[Bob23]

Confused:
   The folks at IdaRudder sell a nylon pin that goes through an aligning hole in the rudder and rudder housing that will break away in the event of an impact. K3vin was kind enough to give me 2 but I have yet to use 'em. My rudder also stays down far enough with the friction from the bolt.
   I've toyed with rigging a line to hold the rudder down but haven't gotten around to it yet. On my old SeaPearl I did just that and it worked just fine.
   I didn't know my coffee traveled that far!!!!!!!!!!
   Bob23, awake, sortof.

[mrb]

I like the idea of the breakaway pin.  I was looking at my rudder today and now not sure if the leading edge of the rudder is far enough forward of the pivot to give a good angle of pull on a down haul.  My Aquarius had a balanced rudder which gave a good angle to cheek block for efficient pulling power. It was also a wooden rudder and had positive buoyancy which made the down haul a must have feature.    With the breakaway pin I don't think I would bother with installing the down haul.
Melvin

[Bob23]

How true!
   I thought about relocating the pivot hole in my rudder to reduce weather helm but it's on the back burner along with about a thousand other things there simmering.
   A down haul is a bit more complicated on my 23 than my old SeaPearl. But with a breakaway pin, you'd have to reach down to replace it every time it sheared. I tried a wooden dowl in my SeaPearl and it worked great until I realised that wet wood swelled and the swelled wood dowl was a bear to get out. The Idarudder pins are nylon and have a small handle or loop of wire to grab to pull them out.
   Ok, folks..that's all for now! It's 6:10 am...time to go sailing!
Bob23, out...er...making coffee again! ( Ahh...caffeine...one of the gifts of God!)

   

[LConrad]

I bought the new rudder and installed it myself, including drilling the holes. It came with new bushings as well.  It could be I did not locate the stainless handle quite right, and it tends to not hold the rudder up quite as well as I would like.  Weather helm improved considerably, bushings eliminated the play, and overall it is a good improvement.  The IdaSailor might be worth the extra price, but don't know for sure.  Here is a picture of the installation of Com-Pac's rudder upgrade http://com-pacowners.com/gallery2/index.php?cat=10644

[Steve]

Hi All,
Thanks for the replies. The handle i'm talking about is used push down or pull up the rudder from the comfort of the cockpit. I know all of you have stradled the tiller once or twice while hanging over the transom to push the rudder back down. I saw this device on an eclipse. It's just a stainless steel rod that's mounted to the rudder and passes through fittings on the rudder head

[LConrad]

I think the rod you are talking about is probably in the picture link in the previous post - just a little hard to see.  It is a relatively new feature on Compacs.  I tie a bungee around it to the rudder to help keep it in place.

[HideAway]

Tired of hanging over the transom to lower the blade I took a piece of PVC shd D the thicker walled one, installed the same plastic fitting used on the deck end of your Bimini on one end and a PVC T on the other.  The T has a bit of pipe sticking out of both sides for a better grip and I put a SS bolt through it  just in case . I tied a loose line around the rudder stock to keep the pipe from falling backwards.  The bottom has a shackle that attaches too the same point as the line used to raise the rudder.  If you replace the last bolt that holds your tiller to the rudder with a longer one I've had some success slipping the tee over it and thereby holding the rudder down.  I got the idea from Compac when they introduced the new cat boats at the St Petersburg boat show.  They had a real slick chrome rod on the cats and I asked if they were planning on offering it on the 23s and they said nobody had thought of it.  Guess they had a change of heart.

A word on pinning the rudder down.  When we go on a long cruise I use a wood dowel that is smaller than the hole.  I eventually drilled a larger hole but what happens is the wood will swell and its a bear to get it out.  The smaller diameter dowel tends to slip out so I took an old plastic license plate and cut out a couple of circles with a hole in the middle.  Looks like a big washer with a small hole.  I put those over the ends of the dowel and it works fine.  If you use too strong of a dowel and run aground you risk pulling the entire assembly off the boat!  That happened to  a friend of mine on a 19.  Not a pretty sight.  Matt

[Steve]

All,
I decided to go simple. I didnt like the pin option because when you run aground under sail it is very difficult to pull the pin. So I went with a line from the front of the rudder up to a small cleat on the rudder head near the top (just below the tiller and just behind the top hinge on the rudder head). This line keeps forward tension on the rudder and is easy to release and readjust when I touch the bottom. It used to be a painful process to readjust the rudder and sometimes I would have to sail for a few minutes with the rudder partially kicked back (excessive weather helm) before I could get a chance to bring the boat in irons, release the tension nut, take my brush handle out of the lazerette, push the rudder down and then sail off. I tested this mod last night and it works great. After a slight bottom contact the rudder actually pulled itself back into position because of the tension on the line. In case of a more serious grounding I would be able to release the line easily, sail off (yeah sure) and then readjust the rudder without leaving my seat. I might try a version 2 using some shock cord attached to the line so it will be truely self adjusting.

Total Cost < $10.
Steve

[Bob23]

Steve:
   I had the same thing in mind but thus far, it has only stayed in mind, not on the boat. I look forward to seeing your version on 8/08 if you can make it.
   Bob23....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...sleepy...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[curtisv]

There is a bungie cord in the photo that is jammed in a v-cleat.  That holds the rudder down.  Some times the rudder is stuborn and won't go down so I push it with a boat hook.



There is also a v-cleat on the back of the rudder stock that came with the boat.  That one pulled out (rivets pulled out) and I replaced it with a horn cleat (with machine screws).  I also added a block to give a 2:1 advantage.

Curtis