History, thoughts, questions,stuff

[swabby_jack]

I currently own a 1980 cp16, it is my second cp16. I bought a new one in 84, the year after I started sailing, I learned to sail on that boat, kept it for about 4 years and then got bigger boat fever. I sold it and bought a Catalina 25, kept that boat for about 4 years also. I had to go several years without a boat, then got a Victoria 18, then a Columbia 26, and now I am back. I am toying with the idea of selling it and getting a cp19 or a cp23. I question just how trailerable is the 23? How long does it take to rig it? I am 55 years old, in fairly good shape, I can rig the 16 by myself in less than 30 minutes and that includes getting the boom and rudder off their fixed locations on the trailer and getting them installed and ready. How long will I be able to rig a 23 (I want to hear from some 60 plus guys out there who own 23's and 19's)? I have never sailed either, but I'm sure that the characteristics are very similar to the 16.
I know the compac line is superior to the Catalina line, however, I was very satisfied with my 25 and would consider a 22, I would like to hear from some former 22 owners and how they compare the cat 22 to the cp23.

[Bob23]

Hi  Jack and welcome:
   I am also 55 years young and I have a 1985 23/2. I never owned a Catalina 22 but a good friend had one for years. Aside from the intense weather helm, he liked it. There are tons of 'em around; they are sorta like the VW Bug of sailboats!
   The 23 is quite trailerable- my 2001 Tundra doesn't seem to know it's even back there. I don't have need to trailer it far- only from my house to marina in the spring and vise versa in the fall. Still, the whole rig can't weigh more than 4500 lbs.
   It takes two of us to raise the 23's mast. Aside from that, I think that the boat can be rigged in under an hour. Maybe that's slow, but I'm a detail fanatic. If I were more into trailer sailing, I believe I could shave that down to 45 minutes from ramp to fun.
   As far as sailing characteristics, the 23 and 16 are more closely related than the 19 is. Different designers, I think and different hull profiles. I like the weight of the 23 and the toughness of the rig. Admittedly, mine does suffer from some weather helm but I still have the original aluminum plate rudder; the Idarudder (foil shape) seems to help greatly, from what I read here on the site.
   I sailed on my friends Catalina 22 a few times. I'd say there is no comparison between that and a Compac 23. The 23 is a much beefier boat, much higher quality and much prettier, if that means anything. Out in a blow, give me the 23 any day!
   Hope this helps...
Bob23 out

[Glenn Basore]

Hello Jack,

You might want to concider the Com Pac Eclipse (21 feet, 7'-3" beam) which I own. very nice boat, trailers well and is easy to rig.

I'm 60 years old with some health problems but I can rig and launch my boat in about 30 min. by my self.

Which ever Com Pac you choose, you cant go wrong with a Com Pac.

Glenn

[wetland]

Jack:

I passed 60 two years ago.  My first boat was a CP-16, next a catalina 22 and last year purchased another CP-16 which I will never sell.  My first mistake was that the catalina 22 had a swing keel which is not good if you sail in the NJ bays as the Cat 22 with swing keel draws 5 feet of water.  It was a bigger boat so with passengers it was nice, but I usually sail by myself.  I can only compare the CP-16, however the guys with the bigger CPs seem to testify that these boats are hardier.  I could actually feel the cat 22 flex and wondered if it would loose all regidity if the back stay were removed.  Of course I love the shoal keel on the CP-16 and feel like I don't have to worry about getting stuck in shallow water with the wind blowing from wherever and no boat control.  I didn't even feel right selling the cat 22 to someone else because I didn't like it so I donated it to an organization.  They sold it and it found a home on a lake where it really belonged.  The CP 16 I have now I wouldn't part with.  Perhaps sometime I would also purchase one of the bigger CPs with a shoal keel. (Do all CP's have shoal keels..?).   I have heard stories with so many Cat 22's around that you might get one really cheap.  That's another story, however like all boats they hunger for expensive boat stuff.
Good luck on your acquisition,
Tom M.

[Mundaysj]

Hi Jack,

I've never owned a Catalina 22, but I looked at plenty of them before buying my CP 23.  My decision was based on the sturdier build of the CP, and also I have to admit, the beautiful woodwork on the interior.  It just struck me as a "quality" boat more so than the 22.  However if you are into racing more than cruising, you may want to get a racer's opinion.

Happy Sailing,

Sherie
"Monday is my day"

[swabby_jack]

I appreciate all of your responces, and yes, the more information I have, the better I am.

Thanks

[Bob23]

Hey, Tom:
   What NJ bay do you sail in? I'm in lower Barnegat Bay and Manahawkin Bay.
   Bob23

[keeljoy]

Tom & Bob 23,
I sail a Com-Pac 27/2 in Barnagate Bay from Toms River to Old Barney. i just have to watch out for shallow water. i sailed a Catalina 22 for many years and went all over the bay, just pulled the swing keel up and I could be in 2 feet of water.

Jack,
Good luck with whatever selection Com-Pac you make. You can't go wrong
Phil

[rchiare1]

Good question. I can't provide any answers but I'll ber reading over your shoulder, to find out. I have had a similar  experience going up and down in size looking for  a sail boat that is just the right size, for me. I'm 67 and find that the CB16, with roller reefing, is just about right. I suits me 90% of the time but this year I gave up launching from a trailer and paid for a dock.
As you get older and are retired; you find that you have more time for sailing and how quickly you can get the boat into the water is less important than how difficult it is. If t is too much trouble, you don't bother going out, or you wait for a crew.


I find that I now have more 'friends' that want to come along and the CB16 will take 4 but we are a little crowded. I'm thinking the 19 might be better but I don't know if the extra 3 feet are in the cockpit or the cabin. Do you?

I have looked at the ComPac SunCat as an option. It is only 15' at the water line but has a 7' beam and is available as a daysailer. So it is an option for me to consider.

Getting older, is not great; but it beats the only other option available.

[swabby_jack]

The cockpit is almost the same between the 19 and the 16 as far as I can tell according to the stats. I think the difference is in the cabin and the foredeck.

I understand what you are saying about being what is more important, that being how much trouble it is, and I think that is what I am more concerned about than anything. Yesterday I took my 16 out, middle of the day, hot, (I don't really care too much for summer sailing unless it is later on in the day), after I got it rigged, sailed for about 4 hours, steady 20 mph winds gusting to 25, retrieved it, unrigged it, I was exhausted, I enjoyed it, but I was still worn out.

I am very attracted to the 19 because I think that overall it is not that much more to rig and launch than the 16, whereas it looks to me like the 23 is substantially more.

If money was no object, I think Glenn's Eclipse below sounds great, but, those are much more expensive.

More later, I need to go now.

It's later now.

Did I mention I live in Texas, it was 95 degrees last Sunday afternoon when I set in.

But then again, it appears to me the 23 would be much more satisfying all around. If I got a 23 what would probably happen is instead of trailering every time I went out, I would do like Bob and set in the spring and then pull her out around December. 

What I need to do is go ahead and sell my 16 so I can be ready when the right deal comes along.

Thanks,
Jack

[curtisv]

Jack,

I trailered a CP23 twice a season, launch and retrieve, with a Toyota Tacoma.  I suggest you get a bigger truck than that.  I just recently bought an F-250 which shouldn't even notice the CP23 behind it.

It doesn't matter how long it takes to rig if you have a mooring.  You really need two people to raise or lower the mast.  I've done it alone quite a few times and that is something you want to avoid.  It is doable with block and tackle and a gin pole.

I spend a day getting the rig tuned at the beginning of the season.  Sails much better than with a loose rig when the wind picks up.  Better for the rig too.

If I had to launch, sail for the day, retrieve, and tow home I don't think I'd sail a CP23.  I'd go for something smaller, easier to raise the mase, less stays, easier to rig.  Not as seaworthy and not as roomy but fine for daysailing.

I sail in Pleasant Bay (Cape Cod), the Atlantic, and Nantucket Sound.  For the latter two I'd rather err on the side of seaworthy than easy to launch and rig.  What's best for you is a matter of preference and where you'll be sailing.

Curtis

[JF AIR]

Curtis ,

I tought interesting the fact that you mentionned having raised alone the mast on your CP23...Briefly , how do you do it...
Also have a rigging question: how should I go about knowing what is a good tension on stays...
By the way ,I have oftened looked at your website and Remote Access is a pretty girl
jf

[curtisv]

Curtis ,

I tought interesting the fact that you mentionned having raised alone the mast on your CP23...Briefly , how do you do it...
Also have a rigging question: how should I go about knowing what is a good tension on stays...
By the way ,I have oftened looked at your website and Remote Access is a pretty girl
jf

Almost every time I raise or lower the mast by myself I tell myself never again.  Then the next year I'm out there doing it again.

The real must have is some mechanical advantage.  I use a pair of double blocks - one has a becket.  It gives a 4:1 advantage.  Tie one end to a halyard and the other to something sturdy on the bow.

And do remember to run the halyards through the masthead before raising the mast.  Forgot that once.

Some folks have built a gin pole.  I put something together real quick and its a help raising but no help lowering the way I have it.  Needs work.

A few years ago I mainly just got under the mast and musculed it up a ways and then took up the slack and then the weight with the block and tackle.  The farther you walk forward raising the mast from below, the more the mast has leverage on you so it takes a lot of effort and might be a bit risky for some people.  Lowering is probably more risky than raising.

The gin pole idea is great but I don't have it down to a science.  Others claim to have built something that works well.  Its a lot of effort without a good pole for one person.  Its quite easy with two people.

As to how tight the stays should be I don't really know if I've got it right.  The book advice is 10% of SWL but I don't have a gauge.  For me its more than snug but not tight enough to play music.  I thing the sequence is 1) forestay and backstay, 2) cap shrouds.  These are tight.  At the point mast should be straight.  Then 3) forward lowers very snug, not as tight, 4) aft lowers snug.  If the wind picks up the mast should bend forward which is why foreward lowers are tighter.  Then sail and see how it feels and check to see if anything becomes less tight now and then.

For tension I just grab the stay and pull toward me to see how tight it feels.  That's what the gauges do but they are more accurately calibrated.  Tight enough so she sails well when the wind picks up is my rule.

Thanks for the kind words regarding the web page and Remote Access.  I'm sorry to report that so far this year she's still under the blue tarp in the driveway.

Curtis

[Craig Weis]

Last year the wind indicator atop Wind Rover, a Com-Pac 19 was catty-wamp-pus and so I helped Steve lower the mast of his C-P 19 while the boat was on water, tied to the dock.

No big deal, Loosen the back stay, push on the mast forward and pull the furler pin. Lowered the mast on to the stern pulpit, walked the dock back and tapped the wind indicator back into position. Pushed the mast up and plugged in the pin and re-tightened the back stay. I have never adjusted the tension on the side standing rigging in the years that I have owned my boat, Comfort and Joy. Nor have I un-done the rigging from the chain plates. skip.