Outboard motor questions for a 23/3

[rock61]

Outboard motor questions for a 23/3

I will be taking delivery of a new Com-pac 23/3 next Spring. I'm still undecided about what size outboard I should put on it. My preference would be a 6 HP (Nissan?), 4-stroke, long shaft (20"). I'd like a motor that is light enough to remove when storing the boat or trailering.

The boat will be sailed on Lake Michigan so current is not a factor. Any opinions on the adequacy of a motor this size? Is there anything else I should consider?

On my current boat I control the throttle via a remote control mounted in the footwell. I'd like to avoid this on the new boat to avoid cluttering the footwell and to make engine removal easier. How well does controlling the motor directly (via it's tiller) work. The motor will be mounted on the factory provided adjustable outboard motor bracket.

Also, how well will the prop stay in the water, in say, a three foot chop?

[CaptK]

rock -

Congrats on the new boat! I don't know what suggestions you will get here about your possible engine choice, but if you post these same questions at the Trailer Sailor bulletin board (linked from the CPYOA Links page), you *will* get a whole slew of answers.

[mgoller]

Rock
Your question was your answer.  But what would the answer be if you asked how much power would the 23 require in an emergency?  With 25 knot gusts abeam near a lee shore?  Also if you want good economy at hull speed you need more horses.  You will burn twice as much gas pushing the 23 with a 6 horse as you would a 10-15hp because it will be full throttle.
How about just leaving the motor on the mount once you have it there?
I had a 4hp on the Com-Pac 16 and have a 6hp on the Com-Pac 19.  Granted these are two strokes but the 6 hp on the 19 is a little underpowered.
This summer a viscious squall came up while I was sailing.  I could see it coming.  I furled the genoa, tightened the main, and started the engine bow to the wind.  When the squall hit it was all I could do to keep the bow to the wind.  I was pelted with beads of rain with a fourty- fifty mile per hour gust for about 2 -3 minutes.  
I was alone and if my engine hadn't been enough to keep me pointed into the wind I would have been in trouble.  I would have had to get that main down in a hurry while being thrown around by the gusts.
I have learned that how your Iron Wind looks is far less important than how it performs.
P.S.  absolutely soaked and not struck by lightning I continued sailing for an hour until it was dead calm and I motored home.
Life in Michigan!

[Bill]

Rock,
   I bought a used 23 and it came with a 6 hp Mariner.  I get 5mph at about 1/2 throttle.   Max throttle will cause the back end of the boat to dig down so that the scuppers actually ship water IN, if the seas are flat!! I am interested in selling this motor because of the noise it makes.  I have to motor for about an hour and a half to get to Mobile Bay.  If I only had to motor for 15 to 20 minutes, I would probably keep the motor.  I am looking for a new Honda four stroke, because I think that is likely to be the quietest.  I have been trying to decide between the Honda 5hp and the Honda 8hp.  I remember seeing a guide of 2hp for each ton.  Sure would be nice to see a spreadsheet of who had what size outboards.

Bill

[Bill]

Rock,
   I bought a used 23 and it came with a 6 hp Mariner.  I get 5mph at about 1/2 throttle.   Max throttle will cause the back end of the boat to dig down so that the scuppers actually ship water IN, if the seas are flat!! I am interested in selling this motor because of the noise it makes.  I have to motor for about an hour and a half to get to Mobile Bay.  If I only had to motor for 15 to 20 minutes, I would probably keep the motor.  I am looking for a new Honda four stroke, because I think that is likely to be the quietest.  I have been trying to decide between the Honda 5hp and the Honda 8hp.  I remember seeing a guide of 2hp for each ton.  Sure would be nice to see a spreadsheet of who had what size outboards.

Bill

[Bob P.]

I have an 03 CP23 with a 9.8hp Tohatsu with a 25" shaft.
The XL shaft is key, more prop in water in heavy conditions means less
hp needed. It is a 2-stroke, but it is light and cheap, and very reliable.

It has an electric start, and generally will start on 1 pull if you need.
Everything - tank, line, etc... comes in the box. I think I had quotes online for as low as $1050 w/shipping.

Light weight is also key (I think it's ~65lbs), it can be very difficult to get the motor up and down from the retracted position in rough weather. Especially for a spouse! (I found out the hard way).

Yes it's a 2 stroke, but it seems to be quieter and less smelly than others that I used as a kid. It also seems to be fairly kind on gas.

One thing on hp. I've found that the extra fwd thrust at 9.8 is probably overkill most of the time. Reverse is one thing that many people forget. We've found that lots of reverse thrust really helps the novice slow down a 3500lb boat fast!

Good Luck!

[Aunt Bea]

This is a great thread for me as well since I am also purchasing a CP23.  To followup along the same lines my question is what are the advantages / disadvantages to an electric starter?

Thanks for your help!

Aunt Bea

[CaptK]

Aunt Bea -

I don't have an outboard, but here's a story that might help your decision...

My brother bought a small aluminum skiff, outboard powered, to use running around Murrells Inlet. He bought it used, complete, and the outboard had electric start. Prior to this boat, he'd always had pull-start engines.

A few months after he got this boat, one evening we were sitting out in the middle of the marsh, having sundowners and chatting. Out of nowhere he remarked, "You know, I've always thought that electric start O.B.'s were for wimps, but now that I have one, I don't think I'd do without it." So, there's his input, 2nd person. I think that especially when you consider your engine is hanging out there off the stern of a sailboat, an electric start would be way more convienent.

You can always pull-start it if you want to...

[Bill Pfanstiel]

We have a 1987 Com Pac 23 with a 9.9hp 4 stroke Johnson outboard(2004). We were sailing out of Rockhall Md. on the Chesapeake. The sailing was great,but 2-3 foot seas.The motor performed great. At 3/4 throttle we crossed from Baltimore harbour back to Rockhall (about 14 nautical miles). It took about 4 gal of fuel. At about 1/3 throttle the boat glides through the water. I considered buying an 8hp ,but am glad I went with the 9.9. Nice to know that there is power in reserve. My only complaint is that the motor is heavy,but that would not discourage me from buying another.

[HideAway]

I bought a 8 hp Evinrude long shaft two cycle when I bought the boat about 8 years ago.  

Observations:

The power is more than adequate even during an opposing tide/wind combination, but I certainly would not recommend anything less. Remember the 4 strokes do not generate as much thrust.  The longer the shaft the better you will fair when some idiot in a large crusier you did not see passes too close.

The three gallon gas tank that came with the motor must be someones idea of a joke because the motor burns a gallon an hour at hull speed.  A metal six gallon tank fits perfectly. On a cruise I'll carry a two gallon jerry can because sometimes the marina gas hose will not reach and it is a lot easier to carry gas two gallons at a time.  To slow down the rust I bought a large tupperware storage container and made it fit.  The gas tank sets in it and is protected from salt water coming in from the scuppers.

Motor weight is a big issue in a couple of ways.  One since it mounts on the stern a heavy motor will unbalance the boat.  Two although we use the main halyard and mast winch to remove and replace the motor it is still quite a job.  We don't normally remove the motor unless its for maintenance but this year we went through the drill for three of the four hurricanes.  [our boat is in a wetslip]

Buy a motor lock. And always use a gas extender.

What I would do different next time:
Get one with an electric start and an alternator.  We seldom have a problem starting the motor but it is a wortwhile option.  I didn't think I would motor enough to use the alternator but I find I do.  It takes an hour to get to the Gulf of Mexico, sometimes more if you can't sail the pass and it seems on any cruise we end up coming back on the intercoastal at least for a few hours.  Otherwise my solar cell keeps the battery topped off.

One problem I have never resolved is the motor will not tip up all the way for storage using its own lock.  Instead I have riggeed a line tied to the stern rail with a large snap lock hook that extends past the cover to the edge of the motor.  The arrangement holds the motor just out of the water and provides entertainment for those watching me.

You're going to love you near Compac.  The best testimonial I can give is that three years ago we moved the boat to a 30 foot slip with every intention of moving to a larger boat--never have-- almost everytime we go sailing we see our dock mates working on their big complicated boats worrying about this and that. I'd rather be sailing our simple boat that we can tuck in behind some deserted tropical key.

Fair winds,
Matt

[curtis]

I have an 8HP outboard with electric start and alternator.

I've never used the electric start.  First season the battery cable was too short
when I put my CP23 in the water so I started out pulling the chord right from
the start.  I later hooked up the battery and the alternator has come in handy
but  I still haven't used the electric start and if I had it to do over I would not
have bought electric start.

My initial thought was that my wife would not be willing to pull start.  As it
turns out she has never been onboard without me and I'd just as soon pull
the chord.  Its so easy that I think she'd be fine too.

I use the outboard very seldom.  So much so that I might sell the outboard
and get a sculling oar or a trolling motor.  I only use the outboard for no wind
situations when I'm not patient enough to just anchor for a while and for the
annual launch and retrieve drill.

[miata]

I f you use it in fresh water you can get a new briggs and straton 5hp 4 cycle, air cooled for about $750.00 without a water pump it is trouble free and any lawnmower repair shop can repair it but during the warrantee brigg will do it fee for 2 years. I have had lots of engines but none better than this one. You cannot buy a good used engine for less than $700.00 unless it is hot.

I would rathe have it than a used honda.
Miata

[pbrenton]

My 8hp Johnson Sailmaster finally quit last season and I've been looking at the options for replacement.  Here's what I've decided/found;

-Of 4 stroke 8hp motors Practical Sailor Mag (Jan 2004) liked the Yamaha (was not a comprehensive analysis, only four brands), but its quite pricey (like $500 over the others) and the Tohatsu is also priced quite well and got a pretty good rating in general from PS, and has come in the lowest.  The article is a good one, although there is no comparison of long term performance of course.  There are a lot of descriptions of where the oil filter is and ergonomics of the shifter, etc.

-I needed an alternator, and adding electric start is not a big difference once you add the alternator ($25 or so).  I would like to know that my 70 year old mother and 110 pound wife will be able to start the motor without much trouble in the event that I am not in the boat or not available for some catastrophic reason.  It remains to be seen if they can lift it in/out of the water on it's motor mount.

-8hp = about 80 pounds.  No way around it unless you get a 2 stroke.  The Honda is 93, the Tohatsu 81.5.

-My yard guy thinks I should have a 4 stroke for the maintenance.  'Nuff said.  He's been in the business for almost his whole 70 year lifetime.  

-The Tohatsu is going to cost me $1725, delivered to Maine, with the electric start and alternator.  If someone can find a better price (new) I'd like to know.  The 2-strokes were running no less than the $1300s before my extras (all 20" long shaft btw).

-Be careful with conversations among non-boaters.  Not everyone understands that when you are asking about a "Long Shaft Johnson" you are discussing outboards.

-My yard guy also thought I should not fool around trying to put the new 80 pound motor on the two-stroke motor mount.  He has a point; for $120 a new motor mount that is made for four strokes would make for peace of mind.

[curtis]

My 8hp Johnson Sailmaster finally quit last season and I've been looking at the options for replacement.  ...

If it can wait a little while I'm seriously considering getting rid of my 8HP Honda.  It is a 2001 with alternator and electric start.  I very rarely use the motor so it probably has well under 50 hours on it.  The only catch is the original kill switch broke so I wired kill to the start switch and it has no start until someone replaces the switch.  I've never actually tried the electric start because the motor pull starts very easily and the kill switch broke within the first few months of ownership.  The factory switch is under $50 but if you don't care about the wrist thingie (or original equipment looks) then any $15 waterproof momemtary switch will do.  First time eash season takes a few pulls but after that its usually one pull.  Only using it a few times a season old fuel in the lines is the likely reason.

Before I get rid of it I need to finish a sculling oar (start it first, then finish it, though I do at least have the lumber), and try it out.  If the oar works out, then the Honda is available.  If the oar doesn't work out for some reason then I'll try a trolling motor.

I'd consider about 1/2 the going price for new ($1,000 is about half unless I'm mistaken) to be a more than fair price considering the condition.  If you can wait and the deal sounds good to you, then keep in touch on this.  We can discuss this and also the outboard bracket which I won't be needing.

Curtis

[pbrenton]

Curtis,

This sounds like a potentially good deal!  Although I would put a couple of conditions; First, like any "blind" used sale, I'd want a 3rd party outboard mechanic to look at it (at my expense, of course).  Second, although I can be patient to a certain extent, I also want to maximize boat time, therefore need to have the whole thing ready to go by about the end of April to give me time to deliver it to Maine and get the new bracket installed on Ella J.  Do you think that these are ok conditions?

In fact, I would not mind finding the nearby honda dealer to replace that switch, being more of an accountant than an engineer myself.

I think we ought to take the rest of the conversation off-line.  see my email address on my profile.

Pete