Working jib for CP-23

[mike gartland]

When I acquired my 1989 23/3 if had only a single foresail in it's inventory...a 150 or possibly 155 genoa.  This sail is an original Johnson sail and works fine in light air but has lost some of it's shape over the years and also seems a little on the heavy side.  It is attached to a CDI Roller Furler.  When the winds b pick up to the point where the boat is being over powered and I reef it in to approximately a 120 or 115 it has a generally poor shape and I am not pleased with the way it performs.  I have finally decided to supplement it with a smaller headsail that will not need to be reefed on the moderately windy days and can retain a proper shape....the question I have is what is a desireable size jib to use in 10 to 15 knot breezes with full main?  A secondary issue is my age...I am entering my mid 60s and wrestling a full 155 genoa around on each tack doesn't have the appeal it once did.  All suggestions are appreciated.

Fair winds,

Mike

[JF AIR]

Hi Mike
I am considering also different sail combinations for those gusty days( 20kn)
I am flying a 135 genoa that does not perform well in high winds when reefed .
I am also equiped with a CDI furler and thinking of a working jib or less
Is it a big hustling to lower sail from furler and sending up another one...I never really saw anybody do that but I dont mind being one of those who do if it can be done as easily as if I did not have a furler
Would apreciate your comments
jf air

[mike gartland]

JF Air

I'm probably not the one to answer your question as I have great difficulty getting my 155 genoa up the CDI furler foil.  Everyone, which includes the folks that make the CDI Roller Furler and my local sail loft, tells me the sail should go up and down the foil quite easily.  In my case, I need to pull so hard on the CDI "halyard" that I'm afraid it will snap and it is hell on the hands....have to use leather gloves for protection.  I have now rigged a block that attaches to the forestay fitting just aft of the forestay and I will enlist the aid of the halyard winch the next time I try to raise a sail.  A dry lubricant like Sailcoat was also suggested by the CDI folks but they claimed it shouldn't be necessary.  My only thought is that either the plastic luff foil is damaged in some way that I never noticed when I've had it down (on two occasions) or the luff tape in the genoa is too large (it needs to be a #6 according to CDI).  I plan to check this out in the near future as I will be lowereing the 155 to get measured for a 115 or 120...still haven't decided.  I'll let you know how the saga unfolds.  Obviously, it is not a good (safe) situation to not be able to raise or lower a head sail quickly in some kind of emergency so I am determined to get to the bottom of the problem and rectify it.

Stay tuned to this station...

Mike

[Craig Weis]

Well my C-P 19 is fitted with a Harken '0-0' furler and it is anodized aluminum having two sail slots with a easy feed.
So the deal is pull down the unfurled head sail, unsnap the QD halyard and attach to the more desirable head sail, start this sail into the new slot and raise that one.
As for shape of sail better talk to your sail maker.
My buddy Steve on Wind Rover [a C-P 19] uses a souling stay for his storm sail. skip.

[JF AIR]

Skip
What is QD halyard ?
What is souling stay ?
Jf air

[Craig Weis]

OK~  'Q' as in quick and 'D' as in disconnect most nautical hardware dealers make a 'pull to release' quick disconnect and I fitted my spinnaker 'tack' which is tied with the shortest line possible to the center of my bow pulpit.

In that way I can change the port/starboard sheets in a wink as tacking becomes necessary once I hauled out the 'big' gun [spinnaker].

A souling stay [and I may have misspelled this one] is simply an additional forward or head stay, also called a head stay that when stored, clips to the base of the mast. But when in service can be tacked to an area just behind the factory forward standing stay plate and then can be used, if fitted with it's own separate halyard, for running up a storm jib [as Steve on Wind Rover does]. I bit redundant I thought but Steve likes it. skip.

[mike gartland]

Skip,

Thanks for the input.  I had aready decided to add a spare jib halyard the next time my mast is down for that very purpose -- raising a hanked-on storm jib if necessary.  The traditional jib halyard masthead sheave isn't used with the CDI Roller Furler arrangement (it uses its own internal foil halyard) so I have a free sheave through which to rig the spare halyard.  The bigger issue will be rigging the second (removeable) forestay.  I've given it some thought but haven't arrived at a final plan yet.

Mike

[mike gartland]

An update on the new jib.  I had a new 120 genoa built by Banks Sails to fit my CP-23.  It utilizes 6.9 oz dacron with a Sunbrella (in Com-Pac walnut brown) UV cover (it's on a CDI Roller Furler).  I've only sailed it twice, once in a moderate (10-15 mph) breeze and a second time in lighter air---- I love it.  I haven't had to furl it so it maintains a much better shape than the old 155 when it was partially furled.  It is stiffer and develops more power than the original.  Tacking is also easier without the longer overlap of the 155.  The clew is also cut a bit higher which improves forward vision and allows the sheeting to use the original genoa track location maintaining a proper angle.  When the time comes to partially furl it I may find that I need to be able to set the genoa fairleads further forward than possible with the current setup to achieve the proper angle but for now I am completely satisfied.   Now if I could get my old Tohatsu 2 stroke to be more dependable I'd be a very happy sailor.

Mike

[curtisv]

Mike,

Late post but ..

I bought a new CP23 in 2001 with the 150 genoa and CDI furler.  I got rid of the 150 after two seasons.  Cape Cod is very windy.  I went with a 110 and a new jib track just aft of the chainplate for the aft lower.  That sail performs better in everything but the very lightest winds.  The change to the sheeting point improves pointing.  A 120 is also a good choice.

I also got rid of the CDI a few years later and replaced it with a ProFurl.  It is much more practical to change headsails on the fly with the ProFurl than the CDI, not quite as easy as hank on.  I have a 60% jib for in case it gets really windy but it would have to be really windy on a day were I was going to be out long enough to justify changing sails to get better shape vs the furled 110.  There were a number of reasons I didn't like the CDI but I do think it is a fine furler for most conditions (light to moderate) and you can't beat the price.

I've considered adding a light air genoa that I would raise if I had a lot of ground to cover and very light air.  The 110 would still be the working jib.  I've sailed quite a bit less in the last few years so I never got around to adding any sails to the inventory.

Curtis

[mike gartland]

Curtis

Thanks for the comments...I am happy with the new 120 and think it will work out well here along the Gulf Coast.   I also agree with your comments on the CDI furler...I find it is quite a task to change out sails using their integrated halyard arrangement.  Fortunately I've never had to attempt it while away from my slip...it  has entirely too much friction in the system, increasing as the jib is raised, to the point where I usually need assistance from a winch to get it all the way up.  This requires running the halyard through a block near the base of the forestay and running a line back to the halyard winch beside the companionway.  Way too complicated and takes way too long.  Hope I don't ever have to do it in an emergency on a pitching deck.  The sail comes down easily and quickly ASSUMING the lower end of the luff tape hasn't slipped below the lower end of the feed slot in the CDI luff foil, which is normally the case as the CDI halyard is not a low-stretch line.  In this case I have to rig up the halyard to winch assembly to RAISE the jib luff enough to be able to feed it out of the foil slot and lower it....not something I want to have to do in an emergency.

I keep thinking of changing out CDI for a different furler and the ProFurl unit sounds like one I should investigate.

Thanks again.

Mike

[curtisv]

Mike,

I bought a ProFurl right before ProFurl was bought by Wichard.  I think they may have been in financial trouble (usual cause for a buyout) and a ProFurl R25 in stock was going at a discount.at Defender  When the buyout was completed a few months later the prices went way up - by about 50% I think.  They are now fairly expensive compared to other small boar furlers.

When bending on the sail I've occasionally had the sail bind in the slot and had to reverse direction a few feet before continuing.  If there are no binds it goes up fast and come down fast.  I tried this in 20 knot winds on the mooring and it went well as I remember.

Doing anything on the foredeck when the wind is howling and the bow is pitching is a challenge and has to be approached with due caution.  I'm not looking forward to changing down to the 60% jib in a blow but not fearful of it either.  A harness and jacklines can save a life but absent of those a line around the waist (tie a bowline) and to deck hardware will do.

Curtis