Newbie. Need major help.

[Rick Evans]

Today I became the proud owner of a 1977 Com-Pac 16 which had spent much of the past few years living under a pecan tree in North Texas.  She's seen better times, believe me.  However, I've been sailing now for over 40 years and couldn't resist the chance to restore this classic.  I'm going to need a lot of help from you guys about how to do this.  To begin with, how do you paint the boat given that it's on a trailer and way to heavy to lift up.  My other trailer boats are lightweight sailing dinghies so, with the help of my two sons, we can lift them off the trailer, on to some sawhorses and do the job.  Not so with this boat which, of course, is one of the reasons I bought her.  If I paint around the points of contact on the trailer, obviously I'm going to have one sorry looking paint job.  So, any suggestions?  

Next, is there a reference for how the rigging is to be set up.  This girl is missing some lines not the least of which is the main sheet.  Is there a rigging diagram somewhere I could look at?  

The cabin has harbored squirrels and possums these many years.  Much of the wood is gone and the cushions are memories of distant past.  Are there vendors which sell replacement cushions?  Any templates so I can have some made?  In short, where can one find parts that may be needed.

I've heard a lot about the new Idasailor rudder.  Is this worth getting?  What else is available by which to improve her pointing ability?  

Sorry to pester you with all these questions and, worse yet, I'm sure I'll have a hundred more in the months to come as I tackle this restoration project.  I'd sure appreciate any suggestions you can offer.

Rick Evans
San Antonio, Texas

[bro t]

Hi Rick,
welcome to the new compac!  I don't know as much as a lot of the others on the site, but a couple of quick thoughts: 1. Do you really want to paint the whole boat?  If the gelcoat is dull, but intact, there are several products which can restore even the crazing (cracks), and bring back the luster.  Once a boat is painted, you increase the need for maintenance, I think, some may disagree. 2. For bottom paint, I simply propped the boat at the rails, lowered the bunks, and painted all I could reach.  Once dry, I rolled the boat back a foot or so, finished the spots where the keel had been resting, etc.  3. This is a good time to tune up your trailer, too.  Read "lessons learned" under the cp23 forum for a good discussion on how to bear the load on the trailer.  4. Everybody says the foiled rudder is dynamite, but you may also want to consider the retrofit of a bowsprit and 7/8 jib (as per the series 2, post-'84) as a means of improving the boat's balance and lessening weather helm.  5. Huchins Marine is worth a check for cushions, etc., and maybe leads to find outside sources.  They are very good about answering their email.  
    I own a 1981 cp16 (hull #1632), and someone put the bowsprit on years before I owned her (2001), and I cannot imagine doing without it.  There is a ton of information on this site, and much of what is in the other forums is useful info.  Good winds and following seas, how's the weather in San Anton'?  It was 5 F. this morning here, not exactly the most boat-friendly of days.  Last week four Maine boys were off Nantucket scalloping in 10 to 15 foot seas when their boat, "Canadian Mist" took a wave over the stern, followed by 3 or 4 more big ones, and she swamped that fast!  The captain ordered the crew into their suits and overboard, put on his suit, let go the EPIRB, pulled back the throttle and went over the stern.  The raft inflated and released (as it should) from atop the bridge, they climbed in and waited only minutes before a Falcon spotted them and they were retrieved by helicopter shortly after (not an easy rescue in the gale and severe chop).  They all arrived safely ashore, hailed by the CG as examples of what proper safety maintenance can do.  Before walking off, the captain turned to the reporters and stated, "I've had better days."

ttfn, bro t. from Upwest Maine

[mgoller]

Hi Rick,
Welcome.  I know the excitement of bringing home a Com-Pac 16.  It is great to just look at those lines.  I didn't want my wife to think I was a nut job bringing home a dirty old boat.  When I brought mine home the first time I stopped at the car wash to give it a first wash and a good vaccum.  Mine had been a bee hive for some time.  It wasn't as bad as it first appeared.  (And this is why I got a good deal from the previous owner.)

Of course the real cleaning took place in the driveway with real tools and cleaners.  Look at the Image gallery at pretty 16 later named Gem to see what was under the dirt.

I would reccommend holding off on any paint.  Try the fiberglass restorers.  Also, call an automotive detailer and see what they would charge to do the job.  I got a quote of $260 to make it sparkle.  

Go to the Hutchins Com-Pac company web site and look at their accessories section.  They sell a book by Robert Burgess vol. I, "Handbook of Trailer Sailing".  You have to get it!  It is very thorough and should be called "Handbook for the Com-Pac 16".

I had a local upholsterer make new cushions for my Com-Pac 19.  Take the opportunity to lighten up the interior and consider using sunbrella fabric and increasing the foam to 4" thick.  Sunbrella cleans great, is water repellant and feels nice.  Look at the cushions for Windy in the com-pac 19 gallery, the blue and cream striped fabric is sunbrella.  
Don't throw anything away until you consider making a pattern or measuring the length of the remnants.
There are specifications for the com-pac 16 rig probably on this website.  You could order all new line this winter using these specs.
I used bumper spray paint from the auto supply store to freshen up the rubrail.
Hopefully you will have a lot of fun cleaning and shining your new boat.  When you go sailing it wont be any work at all.

[Rick Evans]

Thanks Fellas,

    I really appreciate your input.  Doubtlessly I'll be crying for help in the months to come.  I've got to work fast.  Unlike Maine, south Texas weather allows us to sail year round so as much as I'll enjoy the restoration project, I'm anxious to get her out into the water.   My wife and I keep a Beneteau 321 in Galveston and try to get over there (about 240 mile drive) every two or three weekends but that just isn't enough sailing time for me.  Hence, the purchase of the Com Pac 16 which I can trail to one of our local lakes for some day sailing.  

Each of your suggestions was fantastic and I'm already in your debt.  I know painting isn't the best solution, but this girl's in bad shape.  However, I'll try something like Poli Glo first and see if that makes a difference.  I can always resort to some paint if necessary.  

My biggest concern is all the stories I hear about the poor windward performance of this little yacht.  Makes me think that I'll be blown downwind like a Huck Finn raft and have to motor back to port each time.  Does the bow sprit and Idasailor rudder really help?  Is there any hope of beating upwind?  Of course, I knew this when I bought her but still couldn't resist.  Believe it or not, having researched this pretty thoroughly, it's all but impossible to find a reasonably small (under 19 feet) trailerable boat with a good sized cockpit and heavy keel which draws less than two feet of water.  Everything out there is pretty much limited to clunky centerboards (and all their problems) or fixed keels which draw close to three feet.  No wonder the 16 is still so popular.  

Rick

[mgoller]

Hi Rick,
Another thought on your fiberglass would be to use a good cleaner with some abrasive like a soft scrub for a fiberglass shower.  Scrub your boat, rinse it and dry it really good with terry towels.  Now liberally wipe on Penetrol.  I have used it and it will shine your boat up in minutes.  I have heard that it can mildew later.  I haven't seen that.  To get a shine you have to fill the microscopic roughness in a surface.  Polishing alone can minimize roughness but is a lot of work.  Waxes then can fill what's left of the surface roughness and polishes easier than gel coat.  
Penetrol is a liquid that penetrates and builds up a coating as it evaporates which smooths by itself.  Hutchins Co used this product on refinishing and woodwork and teak.  It comes in quart cans.  You wipe it on and supposedly buff it when dry.  I never really buffed it - it shines by itself.  It looks like spilled varnish if you get it on metal or glass, so mask off.  Go ahead and wipe it on the teak, you can still varnish over or you may find it sufficient.

I think the whole thing about 16's not pointing well is overblown by people jealous of such a pretty boat.  Use your full genoa and full main and you can sail 45 degrees to windward.  The foiled rudder will help and you wont zig zag so much as the jib luffs and you fall off.
When sailing in a breeze the 16 feels pretty tender until it heels.  Just hang on to your trim and heading, don't chicken out.  As the boat heels further it will want to head up, don't let it.  Take a breath, relax, hold on, see where she sets.  Thats the beauty of the 16 - she will sail very steady about 4 inches below the rail, any little gusts will just make the bow drop and if you hold on the boat will speed up.  If the rig is really overpowered it will heel over the rub rail and start spilling the main, or there will be so much weather helm you'd be ignoring what your boat is telling you.  You could keep sailing at that degree of heel but it isn't very relaxing.  That's time to reef.  You'll sail just as fast reefed but you wont point as well.  
It is amazing to me that so much of the way the boat talks to you, behaves in light and heavy weather and forgives in chop was given in the shape of the hull by the designer that shaped every curve by hand.

[Rick Evans]

Marcus,

   Thanks for taking the time to reply.  I especially appreciate the comments about the pointing of the C-16.  If you surf the net, there are lots of people out there who whine about the ability to go to windward.  I worried about it but bought my C-16 sight unseen and without ever having sailed in one just because it's too beautiful of a boat.  Besides, close hauled is only one way to sail and, frankly, the less comfortable way.  If I can only beam reach back & forth across the lake, I'll be happy and my crew will be relaxed & dry.  Having said that, I do want to maximize her pointing ability.  Does a bowsprit help that much?  I'd rather not put one on because it would be easier to nose her up to a dock bow first so people can jump on.  

   I sure would like to avoid a paint job and would like to first try the Penetrol.  Let me ask you this.  Never having seen it, it sounds like some type of wood preservative like Thompson's water seal.  After you put it on, does it become sticky?  If you slide your shirt over it, will it get dirty?  Can you actually use it on the fiberglas and not just the woodwork?  

Rick

[mgoller]

Hi Rick,
I am not sure, but this is my take on the bow sprit.  Originally the ComPac 16 was a fractional rig.  The idea was to not put too much sail on this boat so that it could handle the heavy breezes down in Florida.  But the jib was too small to balance the main and weather helm was excessive.  So the rig was changed to a 7/8ths fractional rig and later the jib was increased further by adding the bow sprit.  This helped to balance the main and reduce the weather helm.  I think about 1983 a genoa was standard issue for the 16 to help balance the main.  The standard jib might have actually been an option at that point.
I think the bow sprit is more for negating weather helm and increasing sail area than for pointing higher.
I think to sail close hauled it will be more important to watch the trim of your sails.  You'll want your jib in tight with a nice airfoil shape suited to the strength of the wind.  Fatter airfoil for lighter breezes and thinner for high winds.  Leave the main eased off a little more than parallel with the jib.  The compression of the wind between the jib and main will  suck the main forward and give you more power.
Finally it is my feeling that the weather helm is good.  I suppose if your arm is going to fall off after a half hour that's too much, but you want some so you're in control.  It's like digging your edges in when skiing, or a strong grip when hitting a driver off the tee.  It's the feedback from the boat in response to your commands.
A suggestion.  Sail for a season without the bow sprit.  Try the jib, then the genoa.  See how you like the boat.  A genoa may balance the weather helm by itself.  Then when you know what you want you may add the bow sprit for looks or function or not.  You may change the fore stay to the 7/8ths.
Penetrol - I buy this at Wilson Marine in Howell MI.  Its on the shelf.  It is for fiberglass boats.  It reminds me of the stuff I used to use when I oil painted.  It feels and smells like turpentine, varnish and linseed oil.  And it very well could be.  It goes on like oil, gets sticky in 5 minutes and then is dry in 15 mins.  It is rock hard in an hour.  I don't know how you would get it off if you wanted to.  It will look like shiny fiberglass when you're done.  It might be ever so slightly yellow.  But that could be that Com-Pac's are ever so slightly a yellow white.  I know Com-Pacs are not bright white.  Kind of a cream white.
You may have to mail order Penetrol if you can find it on line.  It really is easy to shine up your boat.  Two cautions:  Don't put it on any dirty fiberglass or you will lock in the dirt forever!  Don't leave the applicator in your shed, or in the trash when done.  The rags are known to be self combustible if left in a heavy pile.  It really is best to burn them when you are done, no kidding!
Good Luck

[Dan Hill]

As far as pointing and sailing qualities, I find the CP16 responds very similar to our full keel Downeast 32.  It doesn't tack sharply in some winds and you have to work back up to the intended course, but holds well once you get there.  I have the genoa as well as the standard jib.  I find the boat responds better with the main and standard jib than with the genoa.  Most of the time I leave the genoa in the cabin.  One annoyance is when tacking the jib sheets catch on the halyard cleats on the mast as the sail comes across.  My solution is to coil the excess halyards and hang them from the cleats which keeps the deck neater and keeps the sheets from snagging.  Periodically the sheets snag the lower ends of the shroud turnbuckles; I'm still working on a consistent fix for that one.  I agree with the previous post that the flat rudder gives you a lot of feedback on the feel of the boat as your sailing.  I like it, but I haven't tried the foil rudder.

[bro t]

Hi again Rick,
   a few thoughts more:  I like Marcus' comment on the spontaneously combustible rags, it's definitely linseed oil!  I have opted for a less cosmetic, lower maintenance route: no finish on the teak!  Yes it gets a bit gray, but with a stiff nylon brush in the spring washup, I get the teak back to a nice "bleached brown" look which is OK for me, and the teak shows no signs of weathering beyond the top skin.  Same as for the glass, I use nylon scrubs and nylon bristle brush with a "boat soap" (leaves a wax finish) from the marine supply.  Someday I'd like to do like Marcus, but wanted you to know that it can shine pretty nicely with a little scrub and the right stuff.  
    As far as pointing upwind goes, I will give you an opinion which cannot be verified, but I have done a fair bit of whitecap sailing (my fav'), and have had best results with the jib w/ hanks on the stay (made for the 7/8 rig with bowsprit) and a roll or two reef of the mainsail if the wind is much over 20.  This gives the boat an excellent balance - practically no weather helm - and makes good speed.  Because a boat's actual direction is the combination of forward movement and leeward drift, the actual vector can be quite a bit off of the point of the bow.  I have been able to tack at less than a 45 (total of ~87 degrees), but the loss of headway actually brings the sum vector motion more off than if you just ease off to begin with!  This was kind of a fun find, but I haven't concluded any optimal point, and it must vary with the conditions somewhat.  However, I have found that the cp16 really responds well to this approach:  find the heading that you can tack on to the max, then back off about 3 to 5 deg., then ease the jib to first sign of luff and set it in a little, then the main the same way, and she'll really hum and never get beyond ~15 to 20 heeling.  We have twice taken water into the cockpit, once from a dead calm to a 20+ gust and stuff was sliding off the deck, so the sheet never got loosed, and once giving a lesson to a friend at the helm on SW summer whitecaps.  It really isn't all that scary once you've done it and realize that 20-25 winds cannot go beyond a point and then spill.... what catches most people by surprise, and we all get used to, is how the cp16 can really change in a hurry in a gust.  It's fast-motion compared to the bigger boats, you've got to love the adrenaline!  Take care for now and get that snow shovel ready; about every twenty years it snows in San Antonio, aren't you due?  (They had a foot of snow in Northern Maine last week, we got lucky and missed it by 150 miles!)
bro t. from Upwest Maine

[Rick Evans]

Thanks, once again, for all your help guys.  Seems like there's a lot of ideas on how to get the CP 16 to go to windward.  I can't say I wasn't forewarned before I bought this girl.  It seems I'll spend the next several months getting her in shape along with something in the neighborhood of $2,000 to refurbish her.  After all that, I'll actually get to sail.  I sure hope it's not disappointing.  My expectations are minimal about going to windward but, what the heck.  If I was focused on destinations, I'd have bought a power boat.  As they say, when you're sailing, no matter where you are, you've already arrived.  It's the journey; not the destination.  I'll keep repeating that to myself as I frustratingly try to beat back to port one day.

As to heeling, I've heard a lot of you talk about shipping water and that the CP16 heels quickly & severely during gusts.  However, I can't imagine it's all that bad.  If anything, the boat is undercanvassed and there is so much ballast, I can't imagine it capsizing.  Before I settled on this boat, I checked out just about every trailer sailer there is.  You can find stiffer boats but only if they have a big keel drawing several feet of water.  Even the Montgomery isn't as stiff and that's with her centerboard down all the way.  The classic sailboats are typically narrow bodied, deep V hulls which are known for initial tenderness but then a very stubborn stiffness beyond a certain point.  The more they heel, the stiffer they become.  By contrast, the more modern designs (like my 32 foot Beneteau) are wide bodied, high freeboard vessels which become less stiff more they heel.  I've never sailed the CP 16 but my expectation is that she sails at 20 degrees all the time unless there's minimal wind out.  I would further expect her to maybe go to 30 degrees or thereabouts but stop at that point.  Is this correct?  Guess I'll find out soon enough.  Despite 40 years of sailing, I've never enjoyed shipping green water.