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Started by dserrell, June 13, 2009, 03:01:34 PM

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dserrell

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Shawn

Seems way to simplistic. Take his first example of a capsize...

"1. One way is to surf down a wave and broach; which means the boat turns as it surfs down the wave, becomes side on to the wave and then rolls over....The point I wish to bring your attention to here is that for a boat to capsize it must be moving through the water."

If you aren't moving how do you prevent from being hit by a wave on the beam of the boat? You can't. You need to be moving through the water for your rudder to do anything.

Or the..

"The wind and the strength of the wind per se is not the problem; no matter how strong the wind is, it is not what does the damage, it is always the sea state."

Many many sailboats have been capsized by the strength of the wind. Ever capsized in a Sunfish? More likely then not it was the wind that caused it. In a small boat like this in heavy wind the trick isn't to go slow, it is to go fast. The faster you go when running the lower the apparent wind speed. When on a reach great speed shifts the apparent wind further ahead which makes it easier to handle.

Shawn

Joseph

I tend to agree with Shawn. What the article indicates is true for sailing in big rollers and surf where the waves tend to have more effect on the capsizing than the wind.

In my own experience in a full-keel 22 ft sloop, in chop without breakers or surf, broaching is still possible and is determined by the simultaneous combination of several factors:

- sailing in beam-reach, broad-reach or running
- strong weather helm (boat on the verge of being overpowered)
- lots of keel down
- a gust of wind (a "knocker")
- wave action pushing on the beam or hind quarters
- increased weight to leeward (both times it happened I was sitting to leeward)
- delay in letting out the mainsheet

In a matters of a few seconds the boat heels extremely to leeward, the toerail goes in the water, the boat relentlessly turns upwind scooping water inside the cockpit, (the cockpit turns into a bathtub), the boat stops and rights up in irons. If the amount of water in the cockpit does not overcome the buoyancy of the boat you are ok....

The most spectacular, well documented (and fully avoidable!) capsizing I know of is the following (enjoy!):  http://photos.sfsurvey.com/sail1/imagepages/image1.asp

(I was told by a fellow yachtclub member that the unfortunate (or very fortunate...) skipper was not attempting this unknowingly or for the first time... my analysis is that he would have probably succeded in his surfing had it not been for the accidental gybe that he experiences between frames 2 and 3 which bring into play all the factors outlined above in addition to the huge wave breaking astern!)

Although I have no personal experience with catboats I have read that the same can happen if a catboat is overpowered while running.  I presume that the above factors would still play a role compounded by the fact that letting out the sail sheet would not be an option.

J.

"Sassy Gaffer"
SunCat 17 #365

Joseph

Frames 28 - 31 clearly show that in big waves capsizing is possible only by brutal wave force without the boat being in forward motion. In huge waves, capsizing can also happen when sailing upwind by failure to climb a huge wave with the boat stalling and backing astern as it goes up the wave, which puts a huge stress on the rudder and the boat bears away rudderless, sideways to the wave. For the sailing style of most of us, capsizing is likely to be more often the result of broaching due to the factors indicated before. Avoiding the boat from being overpowered, keeping the boat balanced, reducing centerboard when the wind is astern the beam, and above all, letting the mainsheet go on time, are the best ways for avoiding broaching.

J.
"Sassy Gaffer"
SunCat 17 #365

Craig Weis

Button her up, strap in, keep your Didi Mau bag close, and point her into the waves and wind. Good luck. I would not recommend a parashut on the bow as that reduces the ships ability to turn to when necessary and then you'll have large problems as she broaches aside to the waves. That would be good grief! She's gonna roll. She'll roll back over. Probably loose a mast, so be prepared to cut that away so the mast won't pound a hole into the hull.
Read Marlon Bree's book.

Joseph

Once while sailing Norfolk to Bermuda in a 38 ft Island Packet we tried a sea anchor. It is not as easy as it looks on paper. It places huge stress on the rode, requires a secondary line to bring it to one side so that the boat can be at an angle to the waves, can be a dog to retrieve and its effectiveness depends on the size of the waves (not much one can do against a breaking Tsunami or a rogue wave in the roaring forties...). For my current style of sailing and the small boats I favor, if I ever think "sea anchor", I should not have been there in the first place...

J.
"Sassy Gaffer"
SunCat 17 #365