Horizon Cat versus Eclipse

[gmerrill]

Curious as to how these boats stack up against each other  as to foul weather and performance

[blighhigh]

I am not familiar with the Eclipse but last year I experienced 50 to 60 knot winds in the Horizon Cat.   In addition the wave periods were short and five  to six feet in height.   I saw the weather coming and had the sail lashed and the outboard motor on.  I can say that I was most impressed with the little boat to handle the weather while I alternated between going up and down wind.  Quite impressive.

[gmerrill]

Awesome experience but to tell you the truth I would have expected no less from a compac.  When I was a Legacy owner years ago. Gerry told me it would take most anything. Just tie everything down and hang on

[alsantini]

I have not been on a Horizon so can only speak to the Eclipse.  During the winter, we are on the West Coast of Florida (Venice area).  I sail a couple of times a week. As expected the weather is a bit changing.  I have sailed in 20+ winds with 3-5 foot waves.  One reef in the main and a partially rolled up Genoa give me the control I want.  My only real comparison would be to a Precision 21, which I owned for 13 years prior to the Eclipse.  The Eclipse heels less and just about never pounds her way through the waves.  Having the keel weight at the bottom of the keel improves the feel of the boat.  The P-21 carries the ballast at the top of the keel which results in a more tender heeling boat in strong winds.  In gusts over 20 or around 20 the P-21 would have much weather helm whereas it takes a really strong blow to see it in the Eclipse.  I have sailed on a friend's Suncat in strong weather.  It heeled substantially more but would get to about 45 degrees and then stop.  It handled rough weather really well for a 16 foot (I think 16...) boat.  The shape of the Eclipse bow allows it to slice through the water more than pound (like the P-21).  After 3.5 years with the Eclipse I am confident that she can handle way more weather than I can.  LOL

[Vectordirector]

Hi,

In my brief experience sailing Bob Tudor's Horizon I would say the Eclipse points a bit better upwind and the Horizon is a bit faster downwind.  It took me a while to get used to the wheel. I somehow kept turning it the wrong way. 

I would say that they are quite evenly matched and if you were to race them, the better sailor would win. 

I don't sail in foul weather so I can't help with that.  Either one can take more than I can.

Vectordirector

[Bob23]

   I can't speak directly to this question but during this years Barnegat Bay Bash, I was sailing my 23/2 alongside Eagle Eyes Eclipse in a steady 20 knot NE wind and gusting to 25. Waves were convoluted and maybe 2 to 4 feet with lots of boat wake coming from all directions. I had one reef in my main and a few turns taken in on the headsail.
  Allen (Eagle Eyes) had full sail up and was actually sailing slightly faster. I was watching the blunt, plumb bow of his Eclipse just sort of slice through the waves while my 23  was taking a pounding. Pretty typical for the 23. Needless to say, I was impressed and without knowing the specs of each boat, I'd guess his waterline length is pretty close to the 23.
   It was only when I flattened the main more with the boom vang that my 23  took off but for the few hours we sailed together, we were both neck and neck.
Bob23

[gmerrill]

Thanks for your input. Pick my boat up on the 25th of this month if all is well.

[Eagleye]

Hi Greg,
Good luck on your new purchase.  I'm certain you won't be disappointed. 
In regards to Bob's post I am very flattered.  Prior to purchasing our Eclipse 5 years ago I had zero knowledge of boats of any sort so I have little to compare with.  The Madame Z  has been very patient with me but it has become apparent that she does love big wind.  Last year when sailing with Bob in much less wind I was unable to keep up with him.  I'm not sure why but we still had a lot of fun sailing. 
As you know PhotoBucket blocked all the pics that we have posted in the past.  If you have any specific pics that may be helpful please PM  me and I will repost them.

Good Luck,
Allen

[waterwheels]

Full sail with 20-25 knots in an Eclipse.....am I missing something. Mine would be healing uncontrollably. I usually reef closer to 15 knots.
Don

[alsantini]

Don.  I usually reef around 15 also but more for comfort than control.  My max with the Eclipse has been 22 mph with a reefed main and a Genoa about the size of a small table cloth!  Discretion being the better part of valor, I pulled the main completely down, threw 2 sail ties on it, rolled in the rest of the Genoa and said "It's Miller Time!"

[Bob23]

Guys: I also reef my 23  at about 15 knots of wind so I was really surprised to see Allen more than keeping up with me in his Eclipse! It's not that he wasn't heeling, but he was under full control...most of the time. What really surprised me was the way the hull seemed to deal with the seas and boat wake.

[Eagleye]

Wow,  not really sure what to say here.  I suppose that reefing is a real good thing but I just kinda do what the Madame likes.  For sure I can keep her at a more "even keel" when we have the Admiral or guests on board but when we are alone I give her the reins and let her do what feels good.  Maybe all those years of martial arts training has something to do with it.  Ya know..."The Zen and the Art of Sailing" kinda thing.  Or  "Mind, Body and Boat As One".?? Who knows?
Anyway, as lessons go, I did figure out how to keep the settee compartments from filling up with water. ...make sure the port lights are latched! Huh Duh!
-Allen