C-16 Newbie with mainsail/boom height question

[lweisman]

Hi all, I just raised the mainsail on my recently acquired '81 C-16  for the first time (I've yet to sail it!).  The sail is new to this boat, an almost new, loose foot model with the company C-P 16 insignia.  When I hoist it fully up with the halyard I find that I need to set the boom fairly low in order to properly tension the luff.  This I can do but it means that we have to duck a little bit when the boom crosses the cockpit (I'm 5'8").  Is this normal on a Com-Pac 16?  I can live with it but I want to make sure I'm not doing something wrong (I have only limited sailboat experience).  Any chance that the newer sail's luff is slightly long for this model?  Any advice as to how low the boom should normally be on this sweet little boat?
Thanks,
Lee
Lake Champlain, VT

[Salty19]

Hi Lee-

It's difficult to fully answer this question for me as it's been about 6 years since I owned a CP16, but I'll share my experience that I remember. I'm sure others will pipe in with a better response.

First off, welcome to the forum and to Com-pac boats.  The 16's are wonderful little cabin cruisers and when setup well and sailed properly, perform better than their reputation.

I'm a little over 6'1", almost 6'2".  When I had the original sails--worn out and saggy, the boom was indeed low and I had to duck under it.  My wife is 5'9" and also had to duck.  My prior boat was a 'lil racing dinghy with a super low boom, so the 16 was flat out luxurious in comparison.

After a year or so, I bought a new loose footed FX main sail.  They had the dimensions and just let them make it without further instructions.  The sail was a little shorter, and kept the boom up a little more. We still both had to duck, but just barely.  Of course the tighter I pulled the downhaul, the lower the boom. Only when the winds are strong should you pull hard on the luff, and often we didn't need much tension, so the problem wasn't a big deal.

Then I noticed something that made a little difference, it was the shackle on halyard.  It was pretty long and was knotted.  While I never had the shackle spliced, I did swap out the shackle for a little shorter one, and it helped just a little more.  But the knot was still prohibiting the halyard from being raised further.   I never did anything about it before selling it. 

Then got a 19, and the halyard was spliced.  This let the line go up into the block a little more. 

That little extra space the spliced end saved could make a big difference for you.  I would suggest a nice smooth spliced halyard with a short-ish shackle..just long enough to clear the aluminum head fitting (also called the head plate or head board). Measure if you need to.   Use 1/4" line which will allow the splice to roll up over the block on the masthead easier.

Also there are a couple of techniques you could try first.  Loosen the mainsheet and boom vang, if you have one, before raising the sail.  Then raise the sail up all the way and with the halyard in one hand, raise up the boom a little bit and pull the halyard a little more.  It might just be some friction or weight on the boom end preventing the sail for going that extra last inch or so.   Then cleat off the halyard and pull the downhaul.  If the wind is light, don't pull hard at all.  If the wind is strong, pull tighter.  THEN tension the mainsheet and vang if applicable.

Also take a rag and put some mineral spirits or rubbing alcohol on it.  Force the rag into the mast slot, starting at the top and running all the way down, and clean any crud out of the mast slot.  Then spray some "McLube" (from Harken, I think) in the slot and on the main sail slugs (if equipped) or on the bolt rope along the luff. 

Between the splice, shorter shackle, raising the boom, and lubed slot/bolt rope it might go a little higher.

Another consideration, if the forward part of boom is higher than the aft end, you probably need to secure the tack of the main tighter to the boom because the leech of the main holds up the aft end of the boom.  They sell slugs that work great for loose footed mains, you just have to tie a thin but strong line tight from the grommet to the slugs. 

Here is a post from the past that shows a pic a little mod I made to my 19 for the tack area on a loose footed main.  It let's me re-shackle to reef and keeps the tack of the sail at a constant height while adjusting the outhaul for the loose foot.  You could skip the shackle and use strong line in a tight knot for more room.

http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=6282.msg44907#msg44907

[lweisman]

Wow, what a great answer!  Looking at the masthead, it did look like I aught to get another inch or two on the halyard so your suggestions hit home I think.  No boom vang (my favorite nautical term) on this rig but I'll definitely pursue your sail adjustment, shackle, and lube advice.  You would chuckle to see me flipping between your answer and an internet image called "parts of a sail".  I'm a word guy and it's been fun to finally learn accurate sailing terminology.  Apparently sailors don't know what a 'rope' is.  ;-)
Thanks for taking the time to share your advice.  The loose foot sail discussion you referenced is my next stop.
Lee

[carry-on]

Lee,
Welcome to the site and CP-16 sailing.
Salty covered the situation very well. If you search around the site you will find his previous 16 and see some spiffy mods that exceed most folks capabilities.
I just wanted to 2nd the use of McClure, including on the masthead shivers and boom goose neck. Raise the boom about six inches before hoisting the main. A sail stop below the goose neck will keep the boom up while you hoist the main. You don't need to be lifting the boom along with the sail. Once you 2-block the  main and secure the halyard, let the boom down and tighten the downhaul enough to remove horizontal wrinkles in the sail. 
Do you know the length of the luff on your main? 15 ft. 3 inches is my main luff. Any longer and I would have trouble with the Bimini interfering with the boom while tacking.

My Main is not loose footed and my main sheet is mid-boom rather than the normal boom end attachment. I don't think these differences would change the luff dimension. 

Where will you be sailing? Have you registered your yacht on this site?
Happy sailing!

[Salty19]

Yep, a rope no longer is called a rope once aboard the boat.  The vocabulary is one of the learning hurdles when starting to sail as the words just aren't common in normal non-sailing life.  But the good news is once you learn them, you'll know exactly what people are talking about and won't have to suffer through the inevitable tough to follow descriptions (such as the metal thingy that the top of the big sail that the clip thingymaggy attaches!).

After a little while you'll start feeling like a pirate! 

One problem though is SPELLCHECK!  Carry-on mentioned masthead shivers, but I know he meant to say masthead sheaves, and probably did say that but spellcheck sometimes gets in the way. OR he's talking like a pirate, shiver me timbers!   Sheaves are the little plastic roller doohickeys at the top of the big metal stick that routes the rope, er, I mean line,  that raises the big sail.  LOL.   Sheaves are just "blocks" at the masthead and called something different to distinguish between other halyard blocks that may be present on a boat.  I have a block near my masthead for a free-flying light air drifter, head sail, but calling them sheaves would confuse them from the blocks that route the halyards. 

The 3:1 outhaul shown in that link is for a CP19..the sail is a lot larger and much more pressure is present than the 16 to tighten the foot of the sail using the outhaul line.  I wouldn't worry about the 3:1 just yet, but the sail slug with some 1/8 vectran or dyneema line to keep the sail tack close to the boom would be a nice first step. If the pressure of the outhaul is too much to comfortable pull it, then think about the 3:1.

Oh, geez I almost forgot the most important thing...you are late on your new member payment to Bob23.  He charges 5,000 clams to be a member here.  I kept telling him that many clams would go bad before he could eat them, and being in the midwest don't really have access to that many clams anyway, yet he still nags me to cough them up or his law firm, Dewey, Cheatem and Howe, will sue.  Tens years here on this forum and I've yet to receive the letter, but I wouldn't take chances on this if I were you! 

[carry-on]

Salty is spot on about the sheaves. I tried "ei" then "ie" but couldn't get away from the red squiggle.  Grabbed Skip's dictionary of terms but didn't find the answer. As a non-typist, I didn't want to lose my work by shifting to google so when spell check came up with a spelling, I took it.
Like cutting the wrong wire...BOOM!

[lweisman]

Thanks for the welcomes, 'shiver me timbers'.  My wife Toby and I live on Lake Champlain, about an hour South of Burlington, and a mile across from upstate NY on what is called the Narrows of Lake Champlain.  TMW recognized my boat as Hull 710, purchased in Vermont from a former CPYOA participant.  After 3 years of refurb she sort of ran out of steam and I since have been trying to figure out how to complete the rigging and installation of parts.  She had moved the traveler blocks forward to the roof of the cabin.  I didn't get much feedback from my earlier posting here as to where to attach the boom bail, so I installed it about a foot aft of the companionway, my thinking being that with the mainsheet and fixed traveler blocks so close to the where the boom meets the mast, that putting some distance further aft would give better mechanical advantage.  Might get in the way of the companionway though. 

I have it moored in our bay, set to go, our maiden sail today.  I can send some photos once I figure out how that works here.  We've named the boat S.V. 'de Vela'.  If I never return to CPYOA you can assume something terrible happened. ;-)

[lweisman]

Our maiden voyage in light winds went well yesterday, then becalmed, we returned under 3 HP Minn Kota power (came with the boat).  In addition to a too low boom, I think my placement of the boom bail for the mainsheet block (about 12"aft relative to the fixed traveler blocks) is wrong.  With the sheet fully pulled in (close hauled), it doesn't bring the boom all the way to midline (as I assume it should), leaves it at about 25-30 degrees.  So perhaps where the mainsheet boom bail hangs needs to be directly in line with the two fixed blocks, to pull the boom fully to midline?  (Is there a nautical term for 'midline'?)  Any advice appreciated. 

( I tried to attach a couple jpegs but despite reducing them to 800 pixels, they were too large for this site.  Perhaps as a newbie my bandwidth is limited.)
Lee

[Salty19]

Once the new member fees are paid to Bob23, he will delightfully answer your question!

Seriously though...I'm of no help as I have no experience with the setup you have, other than to say the boom angle should be adjustable to near centerline.  You don't have to be on center, but 25-30* sounds too far off to me. 

If you make adjustments, set it up in the driveway first with temporary fastening (i.e. duct tape) and test before you drill too many holes.

[lweisman]

Thanks, that's a great idea, to try a temp attachment in the new position.  Especially easy with the loose foot sail.  Will do.
Lee

[lweisman]

If anyone cares, the answer to my (too-low) boom height issue turned out to be due to a too thick halyard so that its loop splice jammed at the masthead pulley and kept me from raising the mainsail fully.  Replacing this with a smaller halyard got the sail fully raised and the boom now well above our head.  Thanks for the advice above.  I think an experienced sailor would have figured it out right away; I used the rope labelled 'main halyard' that came with the boat and didn't know better.

Now I need to post a jib rigging question.
Lee