phrf ratings for com-pac boats

[kickingbug1]

    does anyone have the phrf ratings for com-pac boats? specifically the 16, 19, eclipse, suncat and horizon cat.

[Potcake boy]

Kickingbug,

Not trying to muddy the waters of an event that unfortunately I will not be able to attend, but I think an attempt to put together a PHRF race for Com-Pacs may be an frustrating effort. I'm sure I am saying what many already know when I state that PHRF gets kind of complicated and is for the most part applied at a local or regional level. Your boats PHRF may well differ depending on where you race. To add to the mystery, the basis of PHRF is to equalize the fleet by performance potential of individual boats, which means that every variation from a stock boat has to be considered as well as production changes. All in all a nearly impossible task for the sake of laid back fun races I expect you'll have.

Alternatively you may have enough boats of each model to have multiple starts and race as if it's a one design. Of course the boats will likely not be exactly equal but I think it would be fun to see how your boat and sailing skills stack up against others of the same model. Start the faster models first to lessen the interference. That would also allow individual model owners to see what sailing methods are best for for their own boat. In one local group of "just for fun" racers that participate in a series, they give the first second and third place winners a handicap of 6-4-2 minutes for the next race which gives everyone a shot at winning.

I'm not advising you to abandon PHRF for this event, just suggesting that there are simpler ways of scoring results and keeping it fun for all. I'd be happy to race in "if you finish you drink the beer" race. Well maybe even if you start you drink the beer race.

I've never raced any of my Com-Pacs but you are making me envious that I can't be there for the fun and camaraderie. Hoping you have great weather and lots of fun.
 

[mattman]

Here is what we used last time
Phrf's
      Compac 16    326
      Suncat 17     320
      Horizon 20    maybe 290ish
      Compac 19    279
      Eclipse           270 ish
      Compac 23    249

You know what would be stupid fun is to play tag by having to pull a ribbon off each others' boats...kind of like flag football...Paintball would be another option!

[Bob23]

Not really being a racer at heart, I'm not familiar with the PHRF ratings. But I do know that the RaceCheat rating for a certain Compac 23 is quite high. Indeed, very high. Not far behind is the PBR rating coming in a whopping 321!
Bob23

[kickingbug1]

    matt. thanks. i just found what we used last year which was pretty close. this year we time the start correctly. as to the "tag game". that sound like fun but i think maybe a line with a milk jug might work better. less collisions. the jugs could have the boats name on it. most jugs wins. i know bob will comment on "most jugs wins". p.s  sailing called on account of winter's return. maybe next week.

[mattman]

Pbr rating...that is something I can work with!!!

[kickingbug1]

   maybe each boat should drag a cooler----with some "good" brew

[HideAway]

We don't race much either- Last time was a club night race.  Upon finishing the first race the committee boat asked if we wanted to start the second.  I asked where the other boats were and when they told me they were rounding the first mark about a mile away we did what Compacs do - dropped the hook brought out supper opened the wine and tuned into Prairie Home Companion on the radio.  Compacs are only fun to race as one design -  a 23 vs another 23 etc.      Recently we were asked if we were racing sunday and what our phrf was - I told them I didn't know but thought is was measured in days not minutes  that kind of ended the discussion after they quit laughing  M

[HeaveToo]

The New England rating is 249

To put it in perspective: 

Catalina 22 = 276
Hunter 22 = 252
Oday 22 = 279
Paceship 23 = 246
Pearson 22 = 252
Precision 23 = 231
Ranger 23 = 240
Sea Sprite 23 = 270
Cape Dory 22 = 282

This means that the Compac 23 isn't a slouch for a 23 foot boat.  I imagine that you will get killed if it is a race course upwind.

[kickingbug1]

     these clr races are just for laughs and photo ops, there are however--trophies, so it is also a competition of sorts. this year the course will be a triangle with the start and finish marks being the same the other two marks will be rounded twice  like last year. i think that worked pretty well. much depends on wind direction but everything will be explained beforehand and written info provided. any further CLR business will be posted under Group Outings.

[Potcake boy]

Hopefully no one is suggesting that these boats are dogs, as I don't agree. The Com-Pac sloops that I have owned including my current 23PH have easily driven hulls, and make way in all but the lightest breeze.  My PH with reduced main performs quite nicely on a reach and stays with most boats her size. The keel is of course her weakness, making the proposition of going to weather a bit different than "performance" designed boats. As most owners have discovered, falling off a bit to windward maximizes boat speed and minimizes leeway. Heeling these boats over on a windward point of sail can negate the lateral resistance of our stubby keels, so don't do that if you're looking to get to windward any time soon. If our boats were performance bred they would have taller masts and external keels of deep draft and would be the same as every other boat at the boat show, not offering anything unique like our shallow water ability and security of a fixed keel. I regard these boats as cruisers with reasonable performance. Besides - gentlemen don't sail to weather, and most ladies that I have sailed with don't like that tippy feeling.

I think an appropriate race course configuration for the boats would be a triangle with one side perpendicular to the wind direction. That would provide a combination of a close reach leg, a beam reach leg and a broad reach leg, the best sailing points for our Com-Pacs. Less strategy required for occasional racers and the trim wouldn't require as much attention.

Have fun and be safe.

[Salty19]

The race worked out pretty well last year.    

Honestly the only thing I would change is to let the race run it's course and don't stop the race after the second place boat arrives at the finish.   We never got to see how all the boats finished, so creating your own PHRF rating (CLRCR rating) is still a guessing game, and those in the rear never got the opportunity to really see the end result on the long downwind run.  

Oh, and don't move the $&)@ race markers in the middle of the race!!!

[Bob23]

I agree with Salty on this one. As the future first place finisher, I'll drop anchor and pop open a PBR while I wait for all the stragglers to wander in.
Bob23

[Dave]

PHRF ratings are built on several factors starting with a base rating.  This is then modified for things like a non-spin offset.  The modifications can add 30 seconds.  The numbers usually published are the base ratings. The ranges published by US sailing are only the base. The ratings in Heave Too's reply look like base.   I race a Precision 23 in Sarasota FL.  My base is 231, but the final number is 260.

There is one Compac 219 in West Fl - rating 317.  A Compac 35 is 228.

Hope this helps.