What is it worth

[Tom L.]

I have lines on two Horizon Cats.

#1 is in really bad condition. A 2003 with a westerbeake that does not work. Water in the bilge up to the engine. Marginal trailer may have to be replaced. Basically the boat has been abandoned. The main sail is partially exposed for years because the cover is not all the way on. The standing and running rigging should be replaced. If I bought this boat I would have to remove the engine have some one fiberglass the thru hulls and drive shaft log, buy a new O.B. and bracket. Plus other things I may not know about.

#2 I have not actually seen yet.  It is also a 2003. It does not have a trailer which I must have. The floor boards have been flooded and need to be replaced. The owner says the Westerbeke works fine but my web search has found the motors to be unreliable and very expensive for parts and service. The owner says the C.B trunk (SS) has been replaced. Anybody know why that would be necessary?? The boat is kept on a lift so maybe it leaks. Rest of the boat I don't know about because I haven't seen it yet.

Wonder what you all think I should offer for #1 or #2.

BTW I presently own a Sun Cat so I really know and like the gaff rig and simplicity to rig and trailer launch. I understand and accept the sailing performance of the gaff rigged main.

Tom L.

[rbh1515]

I'm always shocked to hear these stories of people not keeping up their boats.  I guess thats why my boats always sell so fast for top dollar...I really take care of them.
I have no idea what these would be worth.  Sounds like they are not worth very much at all.  How about a new HDC with an outboard.  PM me and I'll let you know how much I paid for mine with trailer.
Rob

[Tom L.]

Thanks Rob. A new Boat even with an O.B. is out of the question budget wise. My Sun Cat was a neglected boat, not abused but neglected. With the work I have done on it, mostly elbow grease it is in very good condition now. So I am well acquainted with elbow grease. But these boats will take some money to rehab. I agree that an O.B. is plenty adequate for the H.C. But even that is more than $2000 by the time you add the bracket and remote controls which I think is advisable on this boat.

Just trying to decide if I should persue these boats or move on.


Tom L.

[hoddinr]

Wow, Tom!

I agree with Rob that it's amazing how people let their boats go to pot.  How hard is it to keep the water out?  Is it abuse, or just neglect?

I just had my trailer bearings re-done (1 year) and a few other things done on the trailer in preparation for the trip to the 10,000 Islands.  Are you and Barb planning on making it?

Ron

[Craig]

Dump #1 unless he pays you to take it away! #2 is a bit of a conundrum. Need more info. Check w/factory about cb replacement. Can't imagine why a replacement would be needed. Westerbekes are a little problematic but manageable. What does the boat look like? "Flooded floorboards".....What does that mean? Cabin sole? AARGH! As previously stated, why would someone neglect  such an investment?

[Bob23]

Tom:
   Will you be selling your Suncat when you find a proper Horizon Cat? PM me...I may be interested.
Bob23

[Vectordirector]

Ah, the dreaded 2ft-itis.  So far I have resisted it's call.  There is no known cure.    It is sad to see neglected boats and there are plenty of them around here in the canals.  Florida is a boat graveyard.  Any boat/car/house/etc is worth exactly what YOU are willing to pay for it.  Check out NADA.COM for used prices.  It isn't perfect but it will get you in the ballpark.  

From what you have said, these boats appear to need more than just "elbow grease."  If you enjoy working on boats (and have the skill and time and space to rehab one) more than you enjoy using them, that's up to you.  Go over them very thoroughly and then make a decision based on cost and time and skill necessary to get the boat where you want it.  I liken it to home rehab:  It will take twice as long as you think and cost twice as much as you think.  Even if you do it yourself.  Plenty of project boats that never get completed for whatever reason.  



If you prefer using the boat over fixing it, I would run away very fast from those two as they have money pit written all over them.   I prefer to use my boat and looked for used but maintained when I bought my Eclipse and my Power Cat.  Some people enjoy working on boats/cars/airplanes/etc as a hobby, and the results can be amazing, and I'm cool with that, it just isn't for me.   Some people have to have shiny and new and are willing to pay the price.  I'm cool with that too, but again, not for me.  

I don't know your budget but here is one a couple miles from me and a couple hours from you:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2003/Com-Pac-Horizon-Cat-2282546/Punta-Gorda/FL/United-States#.VrKDiF6VvmE

Looks to be in pretty good shape and about half what a new one costs.  The broker is the local Com-pac dealer.  Craig or Capt Nemo probably know more about it than I do.   Like most Com-pacs, there aren't a lot of Horizon Cats for sale and they hold their value pretty well if maintained.  There are only 4 used HC's on Yachtworld, nationwide.  There are no used HC's on Boatrader.com right now.  If I was in the market for a used HC I'd be all over that one.  

I know you said you like the cats but here is an Eclipse, basically brand new, for sale near me.  I've seen it out once.  http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2015-Com-Pac-Eclipse-SL-676113

That one is loaded with options, newer, and of course more $$$.  I don't think he has a trailer as he keeps it on a lift, but you can get a new one for I would think $3K or so.  I could be enticed to part with my trailer for much less since I never use it.   Not sure if it is a boat you would consider but I thought I'd throw it out there.  I love my Eclipse.

Good luck with your search.

Fair winds,  

Vectordirector

[Tom L.]

Thanks all. I have been sailing and working on boats for over 50 years. I actually do enjoy the time spent reworking a boat. For me it's a labor of love...omg did i really say that.  I also have suffered from 2 footitice sold my biggest boat, that I grew from a sunfish to a C-380, after cruising The Great lakes and The Eastern seaboard including The Bahamas  in 2005 went as a dirt dweller until 2013 and since then have been searching and rehabing three smaller boats looking for the perfect trailer sailor.

That is what I really like about the Com Pac cat boats. They are incredibly easy to trail, launch and sail. Perfect for me in my late 60's.

Bob I don't want two boats so my Sun Cat would be available. I will let you know if and when I move forward. It's hard to decide as I really like the trailer ability of the Sun Cat.

Ron, I am sorry to say I will not make the 10,000 island cruise. Barb is having multiple surgeries that will prevent our participation. We have always sailed together since 1968. I can't remember anytime we weren't sailing together so a cruising couple we are and will remain. I hope next year will be better for her.

Tom L.

[Bob23]

At this past years CLR, I had the pleasure of being aboard each for the first time. I loved the Suncat for it's portability but the Horizon Cat was nice too. It all depends on how you're gonna use it, I suppose. I'd be hard pressed to choose. So I don't have to because I love my 23!

[Craig]

Tom, I am familiar with the boat Vec mentioned. Bought Cattitude from GI sails. Nice folks. The boat is worth a look if you are serious about an HC. Your "trade-up" cost should be reasonable giving you a little headroom for all the upgrades you might want to do. Gulf Island is only a few blocks from my marina. If you would like me to do an "eyeball" I would be glad to stop by, take a few current pics and give you a report.
Craig

[Tom L.]

Actually Craig I already checked out the boat in Punta Gorda. Unfortunately it is in really poor condition with a very high asking price.

Tom L.

[Tom L.]

Craig I tried to send you an e-mail message but the address on this site did not work.

Tom L.

[hoddinr]

All the best to Barb in her upcoming surgeries and recovery.  I'm sending warm healing thoughts your way.

Hoping to get a good turnout next weekend on Panther Key - Friday - Sunday.  Only down side is that Sunday is Valentines' Day.  Good thing I have an understanding wife!

Ron

[Bremer Speck]

Hello, I am late to the party but having noticed this threat started by Tom, I want to add my own comments because I am the owner of candidate # 2. This is especially in view of the comments by Craig and Hoddinr. No offence taken. Anyways, I bought (well, my wife bought the Mariner as a Christmas present) several years ago from the local Com-Pac dealer in St. Petersburg, FL and I put "Puffin" into a slip at the St. Pete municipal marina.
Being from NH and still working at that time, Puffin got very little use. She slept in her slip most of the time. At some point in time, I noticed that the CB was sticking and eventually it was stuck. I had the boat hauled and it was determined that the board was stuck in the trunk and that it was heavily corroded. I bought a new one from the mother yard and had it installed, professionally. That took care of that issue.
Eventually, I decided to move the boat to Orange Beach, Alabama. I do not have a trailer, so I paid a boat yard to move her for me. For all sorts of reasons, I figured I would have more of a chance to use Puffin there, then in St. Pete. I do own the boat slip here and had a sailboat lift installed in it to keep Puffin out of the water. Unfortunately, the use factor did not increase by much and Puffin slept in her cradle most of the time. So, basically, we sailed Puffin 8-10 times every year and for about 9 months she sat unused.

The in-board diesel is not a Westerbeke! They were not being installed until later production years. This is the original 9 HP one-banger. Cannot think of the brand name. That motor runs strong. Having sat unused again for close to 10 months, it started right-up when I tried a couple of days ago. For a change, I am here in AL.

OK, now to the neglect and abuse part. Abused? Never! Neglected? Yes. Simply for the reason that I was and continue to be far away most of the time. However, I bought a new sail from Doyle, I bought new cockpit cushions from the mother yard and I do have all sorts of new electronics, in boxes, waiting to be installed. Such as wheelpilot, VHF radio and remote mic, wind instrument, etc.

Now, for the "flooding" part. You would think with the boat in a lift and out of the water, there would be very little water entering the bilge. Well, IF the bilge pump had not conked out and with nobody noticeing for several months, water collected in the bilge and eventually rose to the level of the floorboards. Those being plywood, it did not take much to swell.

At that time, a year ago or so, I replaced the bilge pump, removed all the water still left in the bilge, dried out the bilge, cleaned it all up and, as a back-up to being hooked into shore power, I added a solar panel trickle charger. 

I was then gone again for 6 months or so and while I was away, Puffin rested in her cradle. When I came back 3 weeks ago, the boat was almost bone dry and the motor started right-up.

Anyway, Puffin has had and very likely will continue to have very little use because I am retired and my wife and I travel full-time in our RV. So I got to thinking about what to do.

The Horizon is a great little boat and lots of fun on the water. She deserves better. This got me to thinking about selling her and that is when Tom and I eventually connected.

To end this long story, she is still for sale. Yet, with hesitation. If we do not find a buyer who would by her here in Orange Beach, AL, and brings his or her own trailer to move her, we are now strongly considering moving her back to FL. Puffin will still not be used very much but since we will be close to her for 3-4 months every year, we would be using her a lot more often.

Anyway, apologies for the long story. I simply wanted "to fill in the gaps".

Tom, if you are still out looking, perhaps, we can pick it up where we left it a couple of months ago.

Cheers,
Ronald
   

[blighhigh]

Interested in the type of wheel pilot you bought for your Horizon Cat.  If you  don't intend to install it I would consider purchasing it.  Thanks.