Coastal Cruising (Gulf of Mexico) in CP23?

[mschiemer]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the group.  I am making a shortlist of 22-23 foot trailerable pocket cruisers for my next boat, moving up from a 19' O'Day Mariner which I currently own and sail along the Texas Gulf Coast (in the bays).  The CP-23 is at the very top of my list for a few reasons, but I'm still looking around at other options too.

Here's my requirements for my new boat:

-- about 5,000 pounds total weight of boat+trailer so I can trailer it with a reasonably sized vehicle
-- likely 21-24 foot boat so I get full sitting headroom, plus a nice V berth and quarterberths for sleeping.  My Mariner has a great V berth that I sleep in all the time, but the two quarterberths just don't quite have sitting headroom so when I'm stuck in the boat due to rain, I pretty much have to be laying down in the V berth.
-- must be trailerable ( I live in Austin, about 4 hours from the coast, so lake sailing is my day-to-day and I keep my boat in a slip on Lake Travis, but 2-3 times a year I do 5-7 day trips on the Gulf Coast in Texas, or trailer to Florida, etc.)
-- here's the big one: it must be seaworthy enough to handle coastal cruising in the Gulf of Mexico, from Texas all the way around and down to FL Keys.  Potential for Bahamas or Dry Tortugas would be a nice bonus.

So, my question is on the coastal cruising portion...  I like sailing in bays, and I love my O'Day Mariner, but I'm limited in my ability to "hop" from one inlet to another out in the Gulf of Mexico.  I did in once last year, from Port Isabel to Port Mansfield (Texas), about 35 miles from inlet to inlet.  Conditions were good and it was an awesome sail, about 7 hours, I stayed about 2 miles off the beach, no problems at all, even with 4-6 foot seas and 15-18 knots of wind, the Mariner is a seaworthy boat for its size.   But I really can't keep up this habit of sailing the Mariner out in the Gulf like that, and I would not likely attempt anything further than 40 miles between inlets, something that's doable in a day sail.

So, I would like your opinions, and even more-so, your experience, in sailing the CP-23 out in the Gulf of Mexico (or Atlantic Ocean) along the coast, maybe 50-100 miles between inlets.  I really need to be able to make those hops in my next boat, since I plan to spend time on the Gulf coast.  For example, put the boat in at Clearwater FL, and then hop from bay to Gulf down to Marco Island, and then make the 80 mile "open Gulf" hop down to Marathon, along the coast.  Or sail the bays from Port Isabel TX all the way up to Port O'Connor (which I do a lot in my Mariner), and then make the 100 mile hop up to Galveston (with several inlets along the way if I needed to sneak in due to weather).   Or hop 60 miles out from Key West to the Dry Tortugas, or from SE FL to the Bahamas.  You see what I'm getting at.

I don't want this to be a bluewater discussion.  I would not think that the CP23 would be a bluewater boat and would not look to do that.  I'm talking about hops along the coast, out in the Gulf of Mexico.

I've got loads of other questions about the CP-23 but I am getting them answered by scouring this site and others, and I plan to go see a few for sale sometime soon.  For now, I want some firsthand experience and opinions about my Gulf of Mexico coastal cruising plans since I think that is going to be the deciding factor in me going for the CP-23 over something like a Catalina 22 or Precision 23, etc.

Thanks everyone!
Matt Schiemer
Austin, TX

[cw021382]

Hi Matt,

Welcome to the forum.  I just bought a 23d and I am impressed with the build quality and overall solidness of the boat.  I think that a 23 would be a great boat for what you want to do.  I know there have been some 23's cruised to the Bahamas including a PH version.  Here is a link about a young couple that did it.

http://www.statesman.com/news/travel/an-island-adventure-sailing-the-bahamas-1/nRXjK/

There will be some of the more experienced compac 23 guys along shortly to give you advice.  Good luck in your search.

-Chris

[atrometer]

From Clearwater to Key West would be a piece of cake in about anything (search "Everglades Challenge", and "West Coast Trailer Sailors")..  There are MANY great anchorages and with a shallow draft even more.  All Compacs are very seaworthy boats, and the 23 is a great size (some with diesel).  I wouldn't hesitate to take a 23 (or even a 16)' to the Bahamas or Tortugas.  The 23' with 2'3" draft is ALMOST beach-able - Many anchorages you can anchor only a few feet from shore.  From Marco to Marathon are MANY anchorages (See SharkRriver/Little Shark River, 1000 islands) - especially with a 23. Hope this helps.   https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/wctss/info  http://members.ij.net/wctss/wctss/  Here's a modified 23'  http://www.frontier.net/~chappell/

[atrometer]

http://www.watertribe.com/Events/EvergladesChallenge/Default.aspx   Everglades challenge

[capt_nemo]

mschiemer,

You may have heard something like it before, and will likely hear something like it again, but I'll say it anyway for whatever it's worth.

Based on ownership of small trailered sailboats as well as larger blue-water capable sailboats, and thousands of cruising miles, including two extended trips to the Bahamas, the answer is YES, a Com-Pac 23 can be a capable coastal cruiser IF... .

IF, it is in the hands of an experienced sailor who is intimately familiar with the vessels rig and performance characteristics.

IF, the vessel is "well found", that is, in a well maintained "seaworthy" condition.

IF, the vessel has been well prepared and equipped for open water passages and adverse weather conditions.

IF, weather conditions predicted for the passage call for a settled weather window with NO frontal systems in play.

And possibly other IFs of equal and/or lesser importance.

capt_nemo

[mschiemer]

Thanks folks, I appreciate your responses.  Capt. Nemo - I have indeed heard the "IF" scenarios that you listed but they are good to keep in mind and not lose sight of.  Based on initial replies, and my other searches on this topic, it sounds like the CP23 will meet my needs, IF it's in good shape and properly equipped, and IF I do my part by sailing responsibly and very carefully addressing weather conditions.  I look forward to any other opinions and experiences you all may have.

Matt

[HeaveToo]

I guess that I will put my $.02 in on this one.

There is a lot of good information below.  There is a lot of knowledge on this board.  There have been other Compac 23s that have done similar things.

My experiences are limited as I have only had one good trip to judge the Compac 23 on.  Still, I was pretty impressed.

During my trip I saw a lot more wind that I normally see in the Chesapeake Bay.  I did sail upwind in 20 knots with a reefed 150 and a reefed main.  It can be done. 

If you aren't familiar with the Chesapeake Bay, we are famous for steep waves.  The bay is shallow and has strong currents in places. 

I came out of the Potomac River and went North in the Bay.  Winds were Easterly (North East) and it was a tight reach out of the Potomac and then a Tight Reach up the bay with a few tacks.  The wind was strong in the morning and it died out in the afternoon.

In the morning I hit some nasty water at the mouth of the Potomac River.  The tide was against the waves and they were being driven by strong winds the night before.  I sailed through Point Lookout like a screaming banshee and extended my tack a bit before tacking and trying to make the Pax River.  I think that the winds were steady at 15 and gusting 20-25.  I hit some really big waves and she took it in stride.  It wasn't exactly comfortable sailing conditions, but it wasn't totally white knuckle either.  Honestly, I would have probably done better with a reefed main as I did round up a few times.  None the less, I did it and I would do it again.

I have seen about the worst the Chesapeake Bay can dish out.  I took a full gale at the mouth of the Potomac on the Smith Point Side where the waves were breaking over the bow pulpit onto the cabin roof (this was in a Catalina 30).  I have seen a lot of strong days out there and a few strong ones in the Compac.

My average distance on my trips was slightly over 30 Nautical Miles.  A few days I made closer to 35 miles.  This was all done in less than 8 hours a day.  Most of the trip was under sail.  I hit a max speed of 7.4 knots (surfing a wave and the wind on my aft quarter).  I probably averaged over 5 knots (not a typical Chesapeake Bay cruise where we average 3 knots). 

Some points of interest that I would suggest for your Compac:

1.  Closely check the rigging on the boat and replace if necessary.  Have a rigger inspect this well because most rigging failure can be prevented.
2.  Closely check the chain plates.
3.  Check the Bobstay (I replaced mine to a solid bobstay like the newer Compacs)
Have good sails and a double reef for the mainsail.  (One reef is good, having too is much better.  I wish I had a second reef point and I may add one in the future.
I would sail with a 110 if I knew that the winds may be heavier.  I have a 110 and a 150.  I put the 150 on for the trip and it was okay.  A few times I wish I had the 110 because I could have rolled it to 100 or less and been more comfortable.  I did hold okay in 20 knots upwind with a 150 rolled to about 120 and a reefed main).
4.  Carry extra fuel in a jerry jug.  If you have a diesel things are probably easier but I have the outboard.  I have a 6 gallon tank but I carry 2.5 extra gallons in a jerry jug just for the what ifs.
5.  Add an automatic bilge pump that has a high pump out rate.  I have yet to do this to mine but it is cheap insurance.
6.  Have a ditch bag handy (extra handheld VHF, etc).
7.  Equip your boat with Lazy Jacks and a Harness.  If you have to go forward of the cockpit for some reason when you are in rough weather this is priceless for security.
8.  Have a place for everything in your cabin and know where it is.  Tie everything down.  Get to the important stuff efficiently.

I am sure that others can add to this list but it is a good basic one.  The boat can take much more than you can!

[peterg]

I think that #7 should read" jack lines from bow to stern with a clip-on safety tether between the jack line and harness", though lazy jacks are a useful addition. West Marine, or any of the other places should be able to provide all the pieces.

[HeaveToo]

You can get the parts from Sailrite and fabricate them very quickly if you can use a sewing machine.  I made mine and I bought a harness kit from them.

Yes....I tested it out too.  If I am going to wear it it better hold me so I hung myself up with the tether and the harness.  It felt really strong though I wouldn't want to hang there for hours like that.

One interesting I did to my jacklines is that I made them longer than the boat.  They extend just past the transom and they tie off at the rear cleat.  I put a very large loop in the end of the webbing and another loop just up from it.  It can be used to pull yourself up and aboard (I tried this once while swimming). 

Oh, and you are right....I screwed up and meant jacklines.

I have lazy jacks too but I am not so sure that I like them.  Jacklines are a big safety feature!