What is the best way to dump the wind on a beam reach?

[Mattlikesbikes]

It seems I have been getting a little nervous sailing this time around.  When I had my dinghies years ago heeling never bothered me
but from some reason the CP19 gets me worried and it is really only on a beam reach.

If I am beating up wind and a gust hits me  I just pinch and all is good but if I am on a beam reach I always seem to do the wrong thing.
 
The past two weekends have been pretty windy and gusty here and the way the lake is laid out I was mostly sailing on a beam and broad reaches.  
Two weekends ago I decided to try out that new to me storm jib and since it was blowing about 12 knots with lots of higher gusts I also put a reef in the main.  
When the first of many gusts hit I decided to let out the main without letting the jib fly which caused way too much lee helm which blew me around. I had the tiller
all the way to one side and could not counter the lee helm until the gust died.  This past weekend was good until the wind really picked up and I was getting pushed
around. And the only way back was to keep the same course.  I was close to the marina and ready to head in at that point so I just dropped the sails and powered in.  
I just feel as though I do not have as much control as I do at other points of sail when it is gusty. I know the cp19 can handle it but I am not sure if I can yet.

[Salty19]

You're out of balance.  That happens to me when I have the 140 genoa out in those conditions, but I do still have control to steer into the wind as needed.  I roll up the 140 on the furler to about a 100-110% size, pull the outhaul, downhaul and halyards tight on the mail and go on as usual, not sheeting in too hard on the genoa.

Do you have a foiled rudder?   That should give you control...

[Craig]

Keep it simple. Simply luff up (steer into the  wind). Dumping the main alone will cause lee helm for sure since the center of effort will be forward of the mast. I have not sailed a CP 19 but 12kts should be optimum for a full stock rig. Reefing the main in those conditions will again put the center of effort too far forward. She is not going to get even close to horizontal  in 12+ knots! Might get the rail down a bit but she will round up under working jib and unreefed main if you really push her. The normal weather helm will overpower the rudder and she will just head up. No fear of a capsize(I even hate to use that term when discussing this topic!). It would take a truly catastrophic event to push your boat past the point of self-righting. Push the boat a little and you will get a lot of confidence in her abilities (and yours!).

[curtisv]

How about easing the main instead of dumping the main.  There should really be no need to dump the main.  Also perhaps the jib is sheeted in too tight if you are getting lee helm.

I sail a CP23 and one reef in the main and a 110 balances quite well, better than with the full main which gives too much weather helm as wind picks up.

Heeling the boat is OK, in fact its normal in all but very light wind.  Putting the rail in the water is OK and even sailing with the rail in the water (you'll go faster with less sail and less heel, but it does "wow" the kiddies).  A knockdown in a gust to near horizontal is not optimal sailing but OK since you will pop back up if you ease the main and round up a bit.  Let your boat heel and let all that keel ballast do its job.

I've fought with weather helm so many times on my compac that I can't even imagine lee helm.

Curtis

[newt]

There are a few things you can do. Rounding up works for a moment, but the problem is too much sail out. I would head up,come across without changing your jibsheet and heave too. Then I would shorten both the main and jib in a way that should balance,then off you go. Repeat as needed.

[Subsailor637]

I sail a Horizon Cat but used to own a Catalina 34.  I would suggest easing the traveler, which in my opinion is something too few sailors do on most points of sail.  Being heeled over excessively, while exciting, is not the most efficient way to sail.  You should be getting the most speed (and be most comfortable) on a beam to broad reach.  Beating to windward is exciting for a while, but gets tiring.  Not sure what size headsail you are flying but I usually flew a 150 and furled in when necessary.  Again, not the most efficient shape but if I needed to put a reef in the main, I definitely shouldn't be using the full headsail.  So I would say, reef the main, furl in some headsail, set your point of sail, then ease the traveler (main sheet).

[curtisv]

The CP19 (or CP23) dont' have a traveller to ease, so its the mainsheet that gets eased.  But otherwise good advice.  Adding a traveller is also good advise but expensive.

My experience on the CP23 is that there is generally too much mainsail except in light air.  Things are balanced well with the main and my 110 jib up to about 10-12 knots.  Above that, easing the main until it backwinds a little will avoid excessive weather helm.  As the wind picks up weather helm gets bad, so reefomg the main first works for me.  The first reef really should go in at 15 knots or less but sometimes I hold off until the 18-20 range for some exciting rail in the water sailing.  I then roll a little on the furler and put in the second reef.  This is good to 20 knots or so but I've kept most of the jib out up to 25 knots with gust much higher.  I also have a 60% jib which can be used for sustained sailing up there in the 25 knot or a bit more range since a 110 jib furled that far is a poor sail.

My CP23 is not all stock.  The 110 and 60 jibs are not stock.  They are North Sails and the sheeting point is moved forward, on a track just after of the aft lower sidestay.  The second reef in the main is not stock.  I also have a boom vang which helps keep the mainsail down in a beam or broad reach and can keep it a lot flatter than without a vang.

But that's also a CP23 and not a CP19.  I have no idea how that translates into sailing a CP19 though they are similarly equipped.

Curtis

[skip1930]

On my CP-19

Really big wind I use the 155% lapper only. Keep the main tied down to the boom.

In just big wind, both sails out.  I hold the main sheet and the tiller in my hand. Main sheet is in the jam. A gust comes then play the main sheet out to reduce the tendency to round up into the wind. I don't do any trimming of the head sail. That's how I dump the wind on a beam reach.

This CP-19 boat hull shape sails fastest when standing up right.

skip.

Sister-in-law.


This was the day me and my sister-in-law submerged the rail on the head sail only.

Drop board cut in half.


It was a cold day ... had spray too.


On yet another windy day. No passengers. Photo taken by Captain Rank from his CP-19, Wind Rover. Dragging engine to slow the boat down.

[Billy]

The 19 has a much harder chine than the 23 and a flatter bottom. She really does not like to heel. She sails better and faster when she is upright. I can't imagine having too much lee helm on a 19. It has been my experience that when the wind picks up and the boat heels, just letting the main sheet out brings the boat right back upright.

You can keep your main out fairly far and still manage to make some headway. One a beam try keeping the end of the boom out past the beam of the boat.

If you still feel like there is still too much wind and heeling you should reef.

FYI, I always thought 12kts was the perfect amount of wind for a 19. Although they can handle much more.

[wes]

Matt - I'm with Billy. It's scary at first, but since the 19 is very unlikely to capsize, you should try easing the main in a gust rather than dumping it. With practice and some bravery, you can control the amount of heel by letting out or pulling in the main in a controlled way. If you start to panic (happens to me too) you can always put the tiller down and round up into the wind, which is noisy with sails flapping but will usually pop you right back up.

If you cannot reduce the heeling to a comfortable level without letting out the main so far that it starts flapping and flailing, then you know that you really need to reef.

It's challenging to reef when out on the water in a gusty situation. Much easier to do so at the dock before you start. You can always shake out the reef if it turns out not to be needed. I delegate the reefing decision to the Admiral. I have learned the hard way that if we're standing on the dock and she says "I think we should reef", I reef. If she asks "do you think we should reef?", I reef. If she uses the word "reef" anywhere in the sentence, I reef. This is how I have stayed married for 28 years (so far).

Wes

[Mattlikesbikes]

Thanks for all the info guys

My main problem is dealing with gusts in the 14-20 range on a beam reach. It is more of a lack of confidence in myself and my boat handling skills then in the boat. I think I just need to get more time out on the water and I will eventually overcome getting skittish when it is gusty.

To be fair the past 2 weekends I was not using the original head sail.  When I had the lee helm issue I was using what I think was maybe a 80%-90% jib or maybe smaller.  Last week I was using the jib off of a 19II which I believe is a little larger the my original jib ( I do not have a bowsprit).   The gusts picked up to a little more then I was comfortable and with I was sailing close to the windward shoreline so heading up was not an option. I ended up going down wind for a little rounded up and dropped the sails ( it was time to head in anyway)

[wes]

It's my experience on the 19 that the main, not the jib, is the primary source of heeling forces and the best place to adjust and control the amount of heel. With the main eased out, I don't usually experience any worrisome amount of heeling no matter how the jib is trimmed.

Wes