salt water leak

[Frederick]

I just bought a 1987 C-16 about 3 weeks ago.  I have spent  most of the time since fixing various things the older couple "let go".

The woman sailed alone on a lake.  They remarked on the small  area of rotten plywood in a of the "teak" in the front of the cabin and thought it was rain from the front porthole that was missing the rubber seal.

Last weekend, with 4 people on the boat in the ocean, one went to the bow to check the jib.  A small amount of salt water began to accumulate in the cabin and looked like it was coming from the wooden "shelf" in the front or from under it.  I had the man walk off and on to the bow and when he left the bow it stopped, when he walked onto the bow it began again. 

Today I uses a hose the spray different areas of the boat.  One of the nuts was loose on the safety loop on the bow,(does this go under water?) but no water could be seen in hosing the outside or inside.  I am discouraged that so much has been wrong with the boat but this one takes the cake.  I see my options as:

1.  Put the boat in the water on a mooring while I got on the bow and my wife looked for a cabin leak.  However, we could not this did not help on Saturday when we first noticed it.  So much wood is in the way.

2. Take it to a boat repair place (I am not that handy) and pay lot to find and fix it. (I only paid $2800 for the boat and motor).

3.  Ignore the slight leak because it only happened when someone is on the bow. ( but it might get worse).

3.  Call the very nice lady that sold  me the boat, let her know about the leak and see if she would volunteer to buy it back.

Looking for an easy answer.

Thanks

Fred

[Salty19]

Frederick,

I sense a certain level of frustration, perhaps buyers remorse or expectation crushing, with your 16.  Happens to us all on one thing or another.

A certain level of "stick-to-itiveness" comes along with buying a 26 year old boat. They ALL have issues, well, just about all of them.
Some minor, some not. At least it's not a complex powerboat, these 16's are fairly simple, and parts for DIY are fairly cheap relatively speaking to the world of boats.  

I would definitely encourage you, if you like sailing and think the characteristics of it are what you want, to keep it and work through these things. It's not like another 26 year old sailboat will be any different, in fact I would bet Com-pacs are overall less maintenance costs than others are they are built better and with fewer known issues (and nothing on the boat will cost a fortune except a new motor).

As for the leak, there are only three places it can leak while sailing.

1.) Bow eye.  It may or may not be scooping up water. I've seen reports here of that happening in the past.  The right thing to do here is to remove it, clean up the threads, inspect the wood in the V area inside the boat behind the eye nuts, replace that wood if it's rotten, and seal it up again.  After 26 years, these things leak. This should be fairly inexpensive for a reasonable shop to fix.  DIY would be a small piece of wood, some sealer and a few tools..$5 fix.  

2.) Keel/hull.  If there is a deep crack in the fiberglass anywhere that could be under water, it will leak.  Inspect it really well (I suspect you have, and it's OK).

3.) Scuppers.  These are the cockpit drain tubes.  These can and do leak, it's fairly common problem for the age of your boat.
What could be happening is you the added weight of 4 people in the cockpit, and these scuppers went underwater. The weight may of slightly deformed the fiberglass in that area too (it doesn't take much of a leak to ship water).  My old 16 would show tendency for the scuppers to be wet by water coming back into the cockpit..happened all the time, I put plugs here to keep the water out (small lake sailing...waves just aren't big enough to broach).
Anyway, if they leak, water will collect inside at the lowest point,  the rear.  Then when your pal walked forward, the water rushed along the bottom, ran along the bunks and leaked where a gap(s) exist.  Check your scuppers, plug the outside tube and spray water in the cockpit, look for leaks.

This water might of been there all along, not noticed from a spill or careless washing or some other leak until the bow was pushed down. Water collects under the cockpit, and I think you have the fuel locker which prevents you from getting under there easily to inspect.   If the scupper a leaking, a shop should be able to reseal them at a low cost if you don't feel comfortable doing it, it's not a big job.  But do make sure the water wasn't just there all along, and there really isn't a leak.

By the way, any boat handling observations you've made with 4 people completely go out the window while singlehanded. CP16's do not sail well with excess aft weight.  The right balance is critical.  Put an anchor and 18' of 1/4 chain up front as a first step to balance. And set your mast slightly FORWARD (NOT AFT!!  When you go out in a strong wind with one of two people and develop some familiarity with how to sail it, you'll see a big difference, I'm sure of that.

I bet this will be pretty easy to fix.

[JBC]

Fred, from your description, the source of the leak might indeed be the bow eye with the loose nut.  It is above the water line, but not much, and with four people on the boat, and in some waves, it will probably dip under water quite a bit.  The bow eye bolt (u shaped) has four nuts, two outside and two inside.  It's not uncommon for these to work loose some and then, of course, it could leak.  Trailer winches typically hook to this eye and put pressure on it when the trailer bounces up and down.  

The easy thing is to try and tighten all the bolt nuts, inside and out, and use a soft sealant outside around the bolt (a waterproof silicon bathtub or window sealant should work temporarily...5200 will make your seal permanent!), go sailing again and try to duplicate the leak again.  If it stops, or really slows down, you're on to something.  Should it be necessary, I think it's worth it to have this fixed if this indeed is the problem and you don't want to do the work.

Make sure your leak is not coming from the scuppers at the rear of the boat, and running up to the bow.  That could be a whole other case when four people are putting weight on the stern, then moving weight about could send some water forward perhaps, making it appear it was running out under the bench at the bow when all the weight returned to the cockpit.

My $.02.

Jett

[nies]

Do not give up on her, she's a great boat and with some effort you will find the leak and you will never be sorry........... Salty 19 offers some good advice............nies

[MacGyver]

You are definitely the proud owner of a boat that is easy as hell to fix. Out of all the boats I have worked on (In case you didnt know, I am a boat technician by trade, 13 years) The Compac 19, and even the 16, and could possibly include the 23 are literally the nicest to work on.

The bow eye fix is the easiest. as said by Salty, remove it (remove the 2 nuts on the inside and pull it out using the winch on the trailer if you need) then reinstall it using a good sealer, like 5200, 4200, or my favorite LIFE CAULK.
I sealed mine on the 19 using BUTYL tape, and I highly recommend that option.

The scuppers is a good possibility as salty said above, and on my 19 it has these rubber flaps that keep the water out for the most part...... I am sure with 4 people on board ou are having them under water

Literally any issue on these boats can be fixed by a normal guy, it is all easy, and everyone on here shares the knowledge pretty quickly, and by reading that, you can decipher whether or not to do it yourself.
Your time cost you less than buying someone elses time, and the compacs are a breeze to work on.

Mac

[Salty19]

The 19's scuppers are mounted quite a bit higher and don't tend to get below the waterline.
But the 16's will give you wet feet, less so in the version 16II's with the fuel locker, I believe they changed the tubing from straight back to putting two 90 degree joints in them (like the 19's/23) to raise the cockpit tubes slightly.  But the actual holes in the hull are in the same spot, thus water can sit in the tubing and possibly leak.  I think....

[Frederick]

Every post was incredibly valuable to me and thanks for the replies.  I guess I'm more frustrated than I should be .  From another internet site I thought this would be a huge problem.
I had sprayed water at the scruppers and the loose bow eye and could  detect no leak.  But I surmise that a hose spray will tell me nothing.  I particularly suspected those two places but need to put the boat back in the water and stand on the bow to better check it.  Thanks again.

[Craig]

Be careful about what you get on some of those "other" sites. Information one gets on the internet is worth what you pay for it. There are too many self-proclaimed "experts" out there and their advice can throw one into a state of panic. If you want model specific Compac info, this is the place to come. Stay calm! All will be well and you will love your boat! Solving the problems you encounter will make you a better sailor because you will develop an intimate connection with you boat rather than just being an operator/passenger.

[Cevin c Taylor]

Here is a writeup I did on fixing my bow eye.  I believe it was the first thing I did on the boat, because it was clearly loose and I was afraid it would pull through the hull.  All in all a very easy fix with limited tools.  I have not had a problem with it since.

http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=4578.msg31824#msg31824

[Frederick]

One other thing,  the cabin has some "popcorn like" "blown in insulation like substance in it after the leak.

[DavidPA]

Hi Fred,
I bought a 1988 cp16 10 years ago and also had many leaks.  The bow eye, scupper tubes seals, the bow pulpit fittings, the cabin windows and the joint at the rub rail which is where the top and bottom of the boat come together.. I had to reseal all of them, basically, every fitting on the boat needed to be resealed.  10 years later I am leak free. As for the bow eye, it will go under water with someone on the bow.  This creates a lot more water pressure than when you try to reproduce it with a garden hose.  A lot of stress is applied to the bow eye fitting when trailering and this can be hard on a brittle seal as well.

I think you should resign yourself to resealing a lot of your fittings if your experience is similar to mine. You will learn a lot about your boat in doing this so its nit all bad.

Good luck,

Dave

[Salty19]

One other thing,  the cabin has some "popcorn like" "blown in insulation like substance in it after the leak.

That was Bob23, he's been into his Kraken rum lately, and that's just the kind of practical joke he like's to play on newbie's to this site with water leak problems.  You must of not paid his "registration and membership" fee, which he only on rare occasions waives, and this is his payback.  I would suggest taking care of that soon before he resorts to more serious measures, like stuffing your mast with concrete.

But seriously, that clue might lead me to believe that water carried some of the broken down foam material under the cockpit (there is a huge block of foam under there, right??). The foam was above the keel where you step, correct?   Water was probably sitting under the cockpit and when it rushed forward the degraded foam came with it.

Bob, be nice to Frederick..the man's got leakin' scuppers for crying out loud!