centerboard on a 16

[kickingbug1]

     you know how you get an idea and although it might be lame you just cant shake it. well i have been considering putting a centerboard in the keel of my 16 using the stock rudder. i figure i would have to get the boat off the trailer and set it on its side. then cut a slot in the middle of the keel deep enough for the rudder. the concrete would have to be resealed with resin and fiberglass so the trunk is watertight. a stainless steel mount and pivot point would have to be made and attached with a rope to raise the board. although my 16 points ok i think a centerboard would improve it greatly and eliminate much of the leehelm. this is a big job i know but i think it is feasable . the legacy and eclipse have a similar arrangement but i dont know how much better they point.

[skip1930]

Problem #1~ " then cut a slot in the middle of the keel deep enough for the rudder ".
Problem #2~ You just sunk the boat as the water shall not be held at bay. No matter how much fiberglass and sealer is used. But if you insist...
Problem #3~ Say this works and it floats. The trunk will be in the way of the cockpit sole. Or is all the trunk under the sole?
Problem #4~   Somewhere the board has to be tied up and/or held down manually.
Solution #1~   Copy a Seaward and have the rudder blade used as a keel and go vertically up and down. No swing. Where to locate?
Solution #2~   Hummmm. Take all the cement out of the keel. Weld up a ss trunk and bolt it to the bottom inside.
Solution # 3~   Repour the cement keeping slot free. Use the rudder as a dagger board.

For me this would be a project that would never get done. I'd start it and than abandon the butchered hull.

skip.

[carry-on]

Captain Kick,
My "97 has a centerboard which swings down about 22 inches to give a keel of 40 inches.  The control line comes to the cockpit through a tube and terminates at the bridge deck. The tube comes through the cabin at the "V" where the bunks meet. I've not had problems with the board; no slapping noise. If the tube broke water is coming in the cabin?? If the lanyard breaks, hope the water is warm so I can go below and jam the board into the slot. Actually, I think the board would drag going on the trailer, maybe cut the aft roller, but should swing up as the boat is recovered.
I don't see a big difference between sailing on the wind with board up vs down. Board down, less side slip and a few degrees closer to the wind.The difference does not seem to warrant the project you are describing.
Don't have a picture of the centerboard. There is one picture in my photobucket that shows the control line (black) just below thw centerline of the traveler.
http://s1160.photobucket.com/albums/q499/carry-on.

[kickingbug1]

    thanks carry on, i think i wanted to be talked out of butchering my 16. the boat has never let me down and has always returned me home safely so i guess she deserves to continue as is.

[Bob23]

Kick:   
   Cool idea...but "if it works, don't fix it". My friend, the old Ke3vin guy who turned me onto this site many moons ago (Yes, you can blame him!) had a Seaward 22 with centerboard problems so he sealed up the opening in the keel. She pointed just about as high.
   My other sailing buddy Dennis has a Morgan 30 with keel/centerboard. He rarely drops the board, she draws about 3 1/2', board up and points really high. That Charley Morgan knew what he was doing.
   But don't let me discourage you. If you really must go ahead a butcher a perfectly good 16, far be it from me to tell you not to. But,.....well, I'll shut up now!!!!
bob23

[capt_nemo]

kickingbug1,

I respond to this thread because I'm known for modifying my Sun Cat to address performance and design shortcomings and respect other Owner's ideas and attempts to do the same with their boats.

That said, I have the following comments to offer.

IF (and that's a BIG IF) you are comitted to keeping the boat, and IF (another BIG IF) you are really bothered about "Leeway", suggest you consider another alternative. Although it may look anywhere from unusual to perhaps even ugly, depending on the eye of the beholder, an external Leeboard system could serve the purpose. AND, if designed and installed properly you could easily remove it and return the boat to its original configuration should you change your mind. It would probably be a heck of a lot less work too!

Just my "can do" attitude at work here providing some food for thought.

P.S. If you are really talking about "leehelm" mentioned in your original post, that's a whole different story and worthy of another thread.

capt_nemo

[HenryC]

I'm not the man to ask advice on mechanical projects, I tried to build a bookshelf once and it fell apart when loaded.  But outside of the construction issues, just where a centerboard or swing keel is placed is critical in how the boat will handle.  It's a lot like placement of the mast, moving it back and forth just a few inches can really affect weather/lee helm.  This is especially the case with a swing keel, which alters the location of the center of lateral resistance as different amounts of blade are lowered into the water.  And as already mentioned, the mechanism and housing will certainly wreak havoc with the cabin layout.

I like the idea of leeboards, especially for shallow, protected waters, but the idea of all that fragile, movable hardware exposed to wave action always ruled them out for offshore work, in my opinion.

[Salty19]

Moved this over to boat and hardware mods.  DIY section is for "show and tell" of completed projects.

Kick..me thinks you should consider adding the bowsprit and a nice new headsail to compliment.  She'll point higher, will look great, will be a whole lot easier to install and less risk of leaks and grounding issues. Could be a lot cheaper too.

Otherwise I too like the leeboard idea.

One of things I like about compacs is the lack of centerboards.  They all eventually leak, jam or otherwise are problematic over time.

[skip1930]

The 'pointing' problem is not with the keel and or lack of a centerboard, it is the placement of the mast in relationship to the hull and it's design, short and squatty vs. long and narrow. Of course the other 'problem' is the skipper's lack of desire to change tacs in a timely fashion. We all have that problem.

"She is what she is, a little paint and a little lace will make her what she ain't."

skip.

[kickingbug1]

   when i posted this idea i knew i would get advice. damned if i wasnt right. i agree she doesnt leak now and a hole in the hull is a hole in the hull. this idea really hit me at 3am. seems when i wake up no matter what time it is my brain seems to go into high gear. ok in this case maybe the gears ground somewhat. also not being a boat designer i know little about lateral resistance and the correct placement of the board. and in the end skip may be right pilot error is always a concern. in the end the answer is clear she will remain as is. thanks for steering me right

[kickingbug1]

   this could have been worse though, i could be cutting my boat into four pieces like a catboat sailor we know------a tip of the hat to Cal Hopper

[skip1930]

Speaking of Cat Boats my thought was; Do Cat Boats go to wind any better than a sloop rigged masthead or 3/4 rigged boat?
I mean with that mast stacked as far fwd as possible, I figure the hull will just follow around the mast.

And what is a mast and sail? It's just a wing like on an aeroplane, but instead of making lift going up when horizontal it's making lift when standing vertical and 'pulling' the hull along behind it.

Hummm?? skip.