Torqeedo Outboard On A SunCat

[dlane83]

Hello SunCat Enthusiasts,

I posted the same question I will pose here on the Trailer Sailer forum, but although a lot of people viewed my post, none have responded so far.  I am hoping that someone on this forum may have made the plunge and bought a Torqeedo electric outboard for their auxiliary power source.  So here are my questions:

First, every picture or video of the Torqeedo 1003 shows the tiller in the horizontal position. The only time I have seen it tilted upward is when it is being removed after the battery pack has been removed. From my experience, when an outboard is being used on a transom bracket that is in the down position, the tiller arm often needs to be tilted up to clear the transom. This may also be necessary when the bracket is in the up position and the motor tilted forward and out of the water. So, can anyone tell me if the tiller arm on the 1003 can be tilted upward (verticle) and still function to control motor speed and direction like you can with a gasser outboard?

Second, I am curious if anyone has tried the remote motor control for the 1003. If so, where did you mount the control (I was thinking on the seat under the tiller) and how did it work? Did you have to remove the tiller arm to use the remote control and did you lock the motor in a fixed position to prevent it from turning inadvertently?

Having a bad back, one of the benefits of an electric outboard like the 1003 is that it would eliminate a lot of the twisting and bending you have to do to operate a conventional gasser outboard.  Now, if anyone can think of a way to avoid having to raise and lower the motor bracket and tilt the motor up and down, life would really be GOOD.  What do you think about a fixed mount with a 25" shaft?

Any thoughts and/or experience with the Torqeedo on a SunCat would be appreciated.  BTW, I read somewhere that one of the owners of the company uses a Torqeedo on his SunCat.

Thanks.

[skip1930]

Good questions. Personally I don't trust anything battery powered. But that's just me. Having said that I Goggled the motor and found this info.

Technology Torqeedo  Overall efficiency. How to compare the different motors performance ?

Torqeedo provides meaningful performance indicators for boat drives. Basically, the power of a drive is measured according to how much propulsion it actually delivers for moving the boat. This power is referred to as the output or propulsive power. It is calculated by the power times the speed and can be expressed in watts or horsepower.

Although the propulsive power forms an extremely informative index for boat drives, most manufacturers don't provide it.
Suppliers of electric motors generally use the input power of their motors as the power rating. However, only a fraction of this value is actually available to the boat drive as propulsive power. The rest is lost – for example in the motor or propeller – as inefficiency. Manufacturers of combustion engines, on the other hand, usually give the power at the motor shaft as their index. Also here, only a fraction of this value is available as propulsive power:

Gasoline outboards

Power rating = Shaft power (expressed in hp or watts, or btu's = 3412 btu / kW. )

Manufacturers of gasoline outboards do not state the propulsive power of their motors. Instead they quote the shaft power measured at the propeller shaft. The shaft power does not account for propeller losses. As propeller losses can amount up to almost 80% of the rated shaft power for small outboards, the shaft power is not a meaningful performance indicator.

As electric outboards can have substantially lower propeller losses (due to favourable torque characteristics of modern electric motors) shaft power is not suitable to compare gasoline outboard and electric outboard performance.

[skip notes; Full torque is availible at anything above zero motor rpm, but the amp usuage at near zero rpm's go through the roof. Ever drive an electric 5000 lb capacity forklift? The controls and contacts arc and sizzle at low speeds till you get going. But we are sucking the power out of a 2000 lb battery pac. Drive it for one shift. Charge it all night. I don't know what all that means but it sure doesn't sound efficient to me, I mean how many ton of coal is burned in the powerhouse to make juice for the charge?]

Conventional electric outboards

Power rating = Input power (expressed in watts or hp, or btu's = 3412btu / kW.)

Input power indicates the energy consumption of a motor. However, it does not tell how much of the power being consumed is actually being supplied to the boat. The differences in overall efficiencies among electric outboards are substantial: They range from 18% overall efficiency at the low end (i.e. 82% of the input power is lost along the drivetrain) up to 56% at the top (Torqeedo Cruise).

Given these huge differences, describing a motor primarily by its input power is as useful as specifying the performance of an automobile primarily by its fuel consumption.
 
Trolling motors

Power rating = Static thrust (expressed in lbs or lbf) what is lbf?

Static thrust indicates the ability of a motor to move a boat from a stand still position to an infinitely slow moving speed. It does not say anything about the ability of a motor to move a boat at a normal speed.

Torqeedo electric outboards

Power rating = Propulsive power (expressed in watts or hp, or btu's = 3412btu / kW.)

Just like manufacturers of container and tanker ships [Diseny Cruse ships make 10 foot to the gallonn of diesel for there desel/electric propoulsion], at Torqeedo, we always go by the propulsive power of our outboards, i.e. the power actually delivered to drive a boat after consideration of all losses incl. propeller losses. This describes the actual power available to drive a boat. Focusing on propulsive power also allows the comparison of electric outboards with gasoline outboards and trolling motors, as the propulsive power for all outboard types can be measured with the same test regime.

On top of providing the propulsive power ratings for our outboards, we also provide input power and static thrust data for the sake of completeness.

When dealing with electric outboards, boaters also need to consider the overall efficiency of an outboard. It describes the percentage share of propulsive power in comparison to input power (calculated: propulsive power divided by input power).

For electric outboards the overall efficiency is a key performance indicator: Since batteries only have a small fraction of the energy density compared to gasoline, the battery capacity is almost always the limiting factor for power and range of an electric motor.

Higher overall efficiencies result in more power and range. With overall efficiencies for electric outboards and trolling motors ranging between 18 and 56%the different performances are noteworthy.

For gasoline outboards, the overall efficiency is not such an important performance indicator. Due to the high energy density of gasoline [180,000 btu/gal], poor efficiencies can be healed with higher petrol consumption.

The overall efficiencies of small gasoline outboards are therefore particularly poor and range around 5%. I.e. 95% of the energy supplied to a small gasoline outboard is lost in the drivetrain and only 5% arrives at propelling the boat. [Really?? my 5 hp  2 cycle Murcury makes 4.8 knots same as the sails on a good day.]

Boy am I confused now. skip.

[dlane83]

Skip,

I'm confused to some extent as you are after reading your response, but I'm not interested in an electric outboard to save the planet and don't care about all the efficiencies and statistics.  My primary interest in these outboards is to have auxiliary power that I can use by turning a switch on and rotating the throttle for both forward and aft propulsion.  Even better would be to push a throttle lever forward and aft on the remote control they offer for these motors,

I want to avoid having to pull a starter chord, reaching to shift from neutral to forward and reverse and reaching to control the throttle.  If I can get this with sufficient electrons in the tank (battery) to get me out of the launch area and back in as well as home when the wind dies, I would be a happy camper.  Keeping a spare battery for these outboards is a way to ensure adequate range/time of use.

One thing I would also like to avoid, but am not sure it can be avoided is having to raise and lower the motor mount as well as tipping the motor up to keep it out of the water.

My wife would be ecstatic as well since she can't start and operate a standard outboard motor on our dingy let alone on the transom of of a SunCat and knowing she could operate an electric outboard would give me piece of mind.

Nonetheless, thanks for your thoughts.  I'm still hoping someone with a Torqueedo will respond to this post.

Don

[Bob23]

Well, Don:
   I have no first hand experience but a guy in my cove has a Flying Scot with a Torqueedo...don't know which one. Not being an electric outboard fan, I was impressed. Plenty of power and a feature that shows how far it can go based on the remaining power in the battery.
When he shows up this spring, I'll grill him on the motor.
   Sorry I can't be of more help.
bob23