1984 23. Furler vs Hank On?

[Charli3]

Finally found a GREAT 23! I have ordered a "Rudder Craft" kick up and am now getting ready to get new Ullman sales, so I am down to the question of.......... Furling vs Hank On. I had a 22 Capri with a hank on and used a "down haul" seem to work great. So my question is: PRICE, I am looking at the Harken furler, so with furler and price difference in sales I am looking at a difference of $1700.00. Now I know I could get a CDI system for lots less......... but either way my question is still Pros - Cons of furling???

Thanks
Charlie
~~_/)~~

[wes]

You would have to kill me to separate me from my furler (CDI FF2). I never have to go forward to deal with the jib, and maybe more importantly don't have to worry about sending an inexperienced crew to do it either (by "inexperienced" I mean of course "even more inexperienced than me"). It really makes getting underway (and docking) a lot faster, easier and more efficient. I am not a single-hander (yet) but would imagine a furler would be almost mandatory if you are hoping to sail alone.

I suppose the main drawback would be that it's harder to change the sail if you want to reduce or increase area. The internal halyard mechanism makes it slower and trickier to change the jib while underway, compared to a hank-on sail. Theoretically you can just partially furl the sail to reduce area, but most agree that this makes for poor sail shape if you furl more than 25% or so. In reality I have not found this to be an issue for my 19, since I mostly sail in relatively light winds (lakes) and usually need every bit of sail area I can get.

The CDI furlers aren't the fanciest ones on the market, but they are very reasonably priced and mine has worked reliably for a long time. They have a very simple design with few moving parts to fail. Around $700 for the FF2 (the right size for a 19). You might need the next larger model, FF3 I think.

- Wes

[Charli3]

Wes,
Thanks, By the way did you paint your boat?
Charlie
~~_/)~~

[Davo]

I just got a CP23 with a CDI FF2, although I too had a Catalina 22 with hank on sails and a jib downhaul, and with the halyards run aft to the cockpit I didn't have any trouble singlehanding.  I haven't used a roller furling before but I never felt that solo sailing with a hank-on was that big of a deal (although maybe if I was offshore in heavy seas I could understand the need to lessen sail from the safety of the cockpit).

I'm actually considering selling my FF2 and sail to get a hank-on sail, but maybe that's because I have never used a furler before and I like to keep things simple...

[Charli3]

Cool thanks. I kinda feel the same, if it got bad I just lowered the sail.......

[Bob23]

My 1985 23 came with a CDI furler. I know one is not really supposed to reef with it but I do it anyway. Even though I consider myself somewhat of a purist, I love my CDI. Would I change from fuel injection back to a carburetor? Radial tires back to biased ply? Smart phone back to this?

Bob23

[wes]

Charlie - yes, I painted my boat. A time consuming project but very rewarding too. I love a dark hull. Flag Blue above the waterline, Hatteras White (i.e. cream) deck and boot stripe, red bottom. I used two part polyurethane (Interlux Perfection), a product with which I have a love/hate relationship.

- Wes

[Salty19]

Charlie-

Might want to do some online searches for a better deal on the Harken.

I got the Harken 00AL (very nice!!) last year for around $950 or so.  Skip here on the forum uses one too--really likes it.  But you have to make a new forestay and buy the headstay pin for it.  $30 for the pin and whatever a new headstay costs (you have to install the foil connectors BEFORE the headstay is swaged).  Any harken better than the 00AL is way overkill, IMO.  

Right now Defender has them for $1232..  http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C118%7C77896%7C299748%7C750993&id=174586
If you shop around you can get them for under a $1,000.  Making the difference much less. When Defender's warehouse sale comes around, I bet they will be around $950 again.

THere was a discussion on the difference between them a little while back.  Brackish described the "taking down the sail" process from the CDI.  The Harken seems a heck of a lot easier to take down and put up.  Then again each of us not having done both personally, it's heresy.  
I also like that the Harkens are very light, strong and you don't have to be especially careful about the foil bending on the trailer.  It's a true reefer/furler.

I would do it again for sure....but sorry Bob, I just can't bring myself to going back to a rotary!

[brackish]

For three previously owned boats spanning twenty-five years I had hank on headsails.  During that time I can count the times I was solo on one hand.  With plenty of crew and as a young guy willing to go up on a pitching foredeck to gather up and bag a sail and hank on another that worked out just fine.  My 23 is the first boat I've owned with a furling headsail and I prefer that now.  Don't have all that crew, single hand a lot, and at 65 don't want to turn it over to an auto pilot or the Admiral and go up on that foredeck when the weather picks up.

I've only used the CDI (other than crewing for others) so no basis for comparison.  The CDI works fine the upside is cost and simplicity of installation, the down side is fact that the internal halyard system puts the foil in compression when you tension the luff and it limits that tension to the compressive strength of the foil.  The foil is a tad delicate, fairly easy to get a twist in it when raising or lowering the mast and trailering if you are not careful.

I only change my headsail on the furler seasonally.  Late Spring through the start of winter I have a 135 on which can be reefed to about a 110 and still be effective.  Winter through late Spring, I have a 110 on which can be reefed to maybe 90.  In either of those seasons I may end up with too little or too much, but works well most of the time.  I don't race so a little loss of performance won't matter.  Coming from a Capri you may be more sensitive to the difference in performance, hank on to furler.

[pbrenton]

Summarizing and adding my 2 cents; it depends on what you are doing; single handing or with inexperienced crew its nice to just set the jib in a whoosh from the cockpit (we have enough excitement just raising the main).  Racing, serious sailing, any context where changing headsails happens you want to hank em on, probably.  The Compac is not exactly a racing sailboat.  I shorten all the time by rolling up - it doesn't make the already poor upwind performance *that* much worse, and I'm more interested in an easy ride than going a knot faster.

My FF2 is a fine example of adequate engineering; it works as expected.  Be careful storing for the winter that the foil is pretty straight.  I lay the foil pretty much along the curve of the deck, myself, with the top end of the mast overhanging the stern enough to keep the roller parts just barely on the bowsprit.  Also, remember to wax the channels seasonally so the boltrope and halyard have less friction.

Pete, CP23 "Ella J", Chebeague Island, Maine