CP19 Mainsail luff - bolt rope vs. slugs

[rdcvsmith]

With blocks in place to lead main halyard aft, i am now looking at my bolt rope in my luff - do i need to seriously look to have slugs or rollers installed to ease the raising of the main from the cockpit?  I pulled the main up at the dock today, the bolt rope "sort of" worked (it fed itself into the slot better than i expected) (but i still needed to give it a little help once -kind of defeats the purpose of leading that line aft). Slugs would also enable me to keep halyard attached and mainsail in a near "ready to go" state underneath the cover. ...?...but is it worth the price of fix?....any other suggestions for making the bolt rope work better?

-Ray

[ciswindell]

The price is well worth it.  For my previous boat, a West Wight Potter, I bought the slugs from Sailrite for around $20 and installed them myself.  You have to get the slugs and the shackles.  I got the shackles that actually screw into the sail and they worked great.  The first time that you get caught in a storm and want to drop sail REALLY quickly is when you will appreciate the upgrade.

Chris

[Billy]

my 16 had a rope and my 19 has slugs. I say slugs all the way. It is easy to drop the sail and flank it over the boom w/ slugs. W/ a rope you almost have to take the whole sail off. The only thing is when attaching the main sail you have to feed each slug into the track. A bolt rope will guide itself. How often do you raise and lower the main? the more you do it the better a slug will be. If you only raise it at the begining of the sail and at the end the I woud stay w/ the rope is better.

[skip1930]

So how the devil have you ended up with a rope and not slugs on the main sail for the mast's slot?

Anyway it seems strange for a Johnson Sail on a Com-Pac to be a rope. So I'd say the main sail is not the original sail.
Never the less. Some very expensive Harken sail glide slip'em may help. Even normal ACE Hardware dry lube silicone may do the trick.
Well make it easier to pull up.

I replaced my factory halyards with longer [10 foot] 'Stay-Set' lines so the line could make a wrap around the winch and I could put the hurt to it.
This assures that the main is all the way 'UP'.  And a Pentel ink mark on the rope in the rope clutch tells me that the head of the main sail is 'Home' without squinting into the sun. Or digging out the flash light for night sails...a favorite time for me to sail.

With slugs the main sail may be flaked over the boom and a fine sail cover used to put things to bed.

Note two sail stops in the mast's slot are needed. One under the goose-neck of the boom to keep that from falling down the slot. And a second sail stop just above the insertion groove to keep the slugs from dropping out of the mast's slot. Then as the sail comes down flake it over the boom. My main with slugs will free fall to the sail stop with no pulling help from me.

I might add that my main and head sail sheets are an extra 10 longer as well. This allows me when solo to control the sheets from the windward side of the cockpit combing while sitting on the high side. I don't really care to cleat from the lee side and of course with only one sole on board that sheet across the cockpit makes little difference.

Ropes used instead of slugs just slows things down. Each to there own.

skip.

[rdcvsmith]

Skip - I am 100% sure these are original sails - i got the boat from the original owner and these are the sails he got in '83 when purchased (you even remarked this past weeked on the vintage 'gold stripe') ,and all 3 sails have the Johnson sail logo in the corner too.

No slugs and no gromets either!

I have been checking out Sailrite this evening, they have DIY plastic screw shackles that fit over the bolt rope for sails that have no gromets. Looks like a relativly cheap fix for the shackles and slugs - anyone have opionions of these products ??

-Ray

[skip1930]

Sorry. My mistake. Rope...before somebody specified a better way me thinks.

skip.

[Salty19]

Definitely go slugs.  For the reasons mentioned.  I pretty much use skips' method.  Sail stop above the boom and below the slugs.  When ready to hoist the sail, I just take off the sailcover, the sailties and hoist.  No drama.  So I only insert the slugs once a season or if the sailstop happens to fall out (which they do!).  Of course that is a slip boat.   Actually I have a third sail stop below the boom so it won't fall too far when lowering sail (and it serves as a spare).  Brackish here on the forum has an even better solution (do a search for sail stop and you should find it).

Question I have is are you really considering spending money on 27 year old sails??    Surely they are blown out by now??  Sails have a limited useful life, when the curve is more "arc" than "wing", they are gone.  Also in this era, the Johnson sails were not all that great to begin with.  You can get a loose foot, full batton main with 2 reef points from National for about $575.  If you have the coin, I definitely suggest going this route.  You will really notice the difference.

[Billy]

agreed w/ Salty, if the sails are from '83 get new ones. the difference will be worth it!

[rdcvsmith]

Salty - what you said is exactly what I want: take off the sailcover & sailties and raise the sail. Period.

Yes, the sail is OLD, I can not speak of its condition because I'm just learning now. The boat (and sails) haven't been in the water since '97. From '83 to '97 it sounds like the boat saw "average" use here in the northeast  (whatever that might mean).

"Coin" as you said, is definitely at a minimum right now! I've got to draw the line somewhere with the wallet and I want to start getting out on the water. New sails, if needed, will be in the "future to do" list. It is amazing how much and how fast the "little things" add up (and I did the new OB as well for this season).

Correct me if I am wrong but it doesn't look hard to put on slugs by myself (again, stop me if I shouldn't attempt - I could just deal with the bolt rope for the summer). The videos on the sailrite website make it look easy. .... (?)

What size Slugs? - 5/16", 3/8" & 1/2" seem to be the most typical - have noticed some 7/16" as well.

Sailstops ? - Defender, W.M. & Sailrite all have a 1/2" sailstop for a round track - 1/2" size only (Davis, model #2350 - package states "fits almost any slotted spar with round luff groove")   ..... - or can I get away with "Flat Slide Track Stop" (come in 3/8" & 3/4" widths)

It looks like shackles, slugs and 2 sailstops shouldn't run me more than 50 or 60 bucks.

as always, thanks for the advise!
-Ray

[Billy]

take the money you are going to spend on slugs and put it in a jar. Stay w/ the bolt rope until you can buy a new sail (around 4-5 hundred dollars).

I wouldn't put any money into 20 year old sails. Check local sail lofts. You might be surprised to see what they have inthe used department.

I did buy a sail stop from west marine and the screw was too big to fit in the slot. I don't recall the width but I'm pretty sure you want the small one (3/8). I ended up just using a bolt and wing nut. It works great. Especially after losing about 2 or 3 to the depths!

But 50 or 60 bucks.....you're a 1/4 of the way there!

[rdcvsmith]

Just an FYI update

Got all the slugs, screw on shackles and a sail stop for $25 from Sailrite. The job was simple enough and all is working great with hoisting & lowering the main so far.  (the 1/2" slugs and sail stop were the right size for my 19).

.....don't worry, new sails are still on the  "to do" list !

-Ray

[ehall686]

I broke a couple of slugs and had to remove them and sail with the rope in the track....We had to push the sail up to the top.
I got new slugs from West Marine for 12 bucks well worth the price.

I too am sailing on original 1982 sails, the leech side does look a little stretched out
I am looking forward to seeing what new sails would do for the performance and handling.

[Bob23]

   I can tell you what new sails will do: Just this spring I replaced my original 1985 Johnson sails for my 23 with a new main and 130 genoa made locally by John Eggers Sailmakers, NJ. What a difference! I didn't realize how bad my old sails were. I had always used the excuse "Well, they move the boat so they're ok." Right. If my engine were running on 6 cylinders instead of all 8, it would still move the truck, too.
  My sails were made heavy for the typical afternoon winds we get here in Southern NJ. 6.2 oz if I remember correctly. But still for the inagural launch sail, she topped 5.8 gps knots in about 10-12 knots of wind. Not too shabby for a 23.
  Tacking has improved considerably. Before, I could easily get stuck in irons if I were to tack without the jib. Now, I can easily complete my tacks even if the main alone is up. I normally don't sail with just the main...the 23's like to have a headsail flying.
  Weatherhelm has lessened but not as much as I would have liked. I think it's that darned giant wood foiled rudder blade that I made.
   I had slugs on my old sail, and slugs on my new. My son's Irwin FreeSpirit uses a rope. I guess technically, a rope will provide better airflow but I'm not racing, are you? Slugs make it far easier to drop and raise sail.
Bob23 

[brackish]

Here is what I did for a sail slug stop after I got tired of dropping sail stops overboard.  The sail is lifted up for the pictures but the slugs sit on the push pin.  It is a 3/16" pin with a 1.4" working area.  When you reef, you just pull it out, drop the sail the number of slugs for the reef and then push it back in.  McMaster Carr, about four bucks. I use a sail stop under the boom where it can't fall out and get lost, but for the sail this works much better, particularly for reefing.