Sunday Cat vs Potter-15

[johnmcneely]

Dear Members:

I have owned a Com-Pac 16 and a 23. I currently own a Potter-15. The previous boats I sailed on a large lake in Central Texas, Lake Travis. When I moved to the Denver area in '91 I no longer had those boats and tried a number of other boats until I settled on a Potter-15 that I have had in 2002.

Occasionally I contract "change-your-boat" boat fever. I am attracted by the looks and functionality of the Sunday Cat. I have had a chance to sail the Picnic Cat in both light air and gusty winds with about 2-foot waves on an inland lake. Of course the Picnic Cat is not really ballasted and it is a planing hull (I think).

I'm trying to find out if I would be happy with a Sunday Cat. I'd like your collective wisdom in replies to this posting to help me decide.

It might be best for you to know the kind of sailing that I do, what attracted me to the Potter, what I don't like about it and what is attracting me to the Sunday Cat instead.

The kind of sailing I do

I am still a working professional. So, I am lucky to get the boat out 6-10 times during the sailing season which is abbreviated in this part of the country. I usually sail at a lake nearby but plan to take it to more places next year (otherwise why have a trailerable sailboat). The lakes begin to thaw out in April and then many close to boating by November. I don't sail for many hours at a time; maybe two or three at the most before coming back to shore. One issue is the Lady friend needs to use facilities often. Another is the half-hour I spend readying the Potter to launch and then the other half hour I spend getting her ready for travel after sailing.  It is possible at the height of Summer to be really miserable in the heat with no wind. So a Bimini is a must. I am adding one to the Potter this next season.  Most summers winds are light and  unsteady. This past Summer was an exception. The sailing was wonderful with relatively steady winds for most of the day. In fact storms would come up often by 3 PM forcing us off the water. It was great to be able to beach the Potter at the Lake and go to a picnic table for lunch or to wait out the tempest. Often, we just would leave the lake by then.

What I like about the Potter 15
It's paid for (smile). It sails on the slightest of breezes. It can be easily beached. It is cute what with its pronounced deck shear (see it at http://wwpotter.com). It can be easily pulled by a compact car. I own a Jeep Wrangler with a 6-cylinder engine and an automatic transmission). It has a cabin where theoretically 2 people could sleep but I have never done so in 8 years of ownership. The lady and I are not camping-out types. I like the loose-footed mains'l, mid-boom sheeting for good sail shape control, the Jiffy reefing and tanbark colored sails. The bow pulpit makes it seem like you are on a much bigger boat.

What I don't like about the Potter
I turned it over once while at a mooring with sails up. A big gust hit while I was on the low side and big as I am, I couldn't scramble to the high side in time to keep it from broaching and filling up with water. Fortunately, I was only 50-feet from shore, but it was a most unpleasant experience. I should say that I also own Sunfish and flipping them over and recovering them is no big deal, but a Potter is something else. Fortunately, it had enough flotation that it did not sink and never turned turtle (but I've heard they do). But now I keep the cabin hatch and ports closed when sailing. The cabin takes up so much room that the cockpit is really confined. Two people are tight and three is unworkable unless the third person is a child. If I am a day sailor, what do I really need a sleep-aboard cabin for? I would like to have more people aboard although I probably would not too often. There is no place aboard a Potter-15 for a head.

What attracts me to the Sunday Cat
The Mastendr Plus system is very attractive. I think I could get ready to launch and get ready for travel much faster than I can now, leaving more of available time for sailing. It is more of a day sailor with the cockpit favored in the design. It has privacy for a head and shelter in a storm and plenty of storage. It is still a "quaint" boat as opposed to the standard sloop. I like the additional stability of a ballasted shoal-draft keel like
I experienced on the Com-Pac 23. The 23 would be too much boat for me now. I doubt a gust at a mooring would turn the Sunday Cat over. I like the simplicity of sailing with just one sail. I like that the gaff rig still allows plenty of canvass but without a high-aspect ratio that would make the boat prone to more heeling.

Concerns
I've heard rumor that these 17-foot Catboats don't do well in light air. That could be an issue. I've never owned a gaff rig so that part is unfamiliar. I wonder if the current Jeep could handle pulling it. The boat manufacturer seems to think so. I am not disposed to replacing the tow vehicle. I find the Sunday Cat pricey right now. I may have to wait some years for a distressed seller looking for a good home for their boat (smile).

So there you are. Any wisdom would be appreciated.

John McNeely
Rocky Mountain Pocket-Cruisers Association (http://rmpa.info)

[capt_nemo]

I have a SunCat - cabin version of the Sunday (cuddy cabin) Cat. It's no rumor, fact is,  they do not do well in light air. Consider that the main'sl sail has 150 sq ft of cloth for a 1,500 lb boat. Contrast that with a Pacific Pelican of 14' 7'' length and 600 lbs that has 145 sq ft of sail! To say that they do not do well in light air is an understatement. Read my post below entitled "SunCat With Jib" to see how I address the boat's performance in light air. All that said, I love my SunCat for her spacious cabin, sizable comfortable cockpit, and most of all the "Mastender" System that keeps everything and I mean EVERYTHING attached/rigged except the lever tensioning/locking forestay. It rigs at the launch ramp in minutes and launches/retrieves easily on its trailer. And, when the wind does come up, she sails like a dream and can take a pounding. Best wishes in your search for another boat.

[Tom Ray]

Yes, we can all confirm the light air part. They're slow. A determined and patient sailor can make them go in light wind. Take a look at the Sun Cat Nationals Videos and you'll see.

There are a few tricks and twists to sailing a gaff rigged catboat, but it's fun and easy to learn.

The boat weighs around 2,500 lbs loaded on a trailer, so check the rating on your jeep.

Used Sun Cats are still pretty expensive, but now that the earliest Com-Pac Sun Cats are ten years old, used prices should come down a bit. Finding a used Sunday Cat at a good price is likely to be hard for several years to come. On the other hand, if you decide to buy a new one, the usual new boat depreciation hit is not nearly as bad as with many other boats.

We love our Sun Cat for the easy sailing, easy rigging, comfortable and dry ride, stability and low heeling angles, and most of all the easy DErigging when we get back to the boat ramp. It does not have the almost magical ability to move around in light air (5 knots or less) that some racier boats have, but as soon as the wind hits about 8 knots, you have plenty of power to sail. Reefing is a good idea around 15 knots, but not really necessary until it's blowing 20.

I would have thought it was impossible to capsize a Sun Cat, but someone did manage to do it. OK, so it's nearly impossible, and you have to be asking for it.

[Bob23]

I have not sailed a Suncat but with all the discussion about poor light air performance, I can say the 23 is a close relative. But give me a breeze or two and my 23 comes to life!
I remember reading somewhere (Good Old Boat magazine?) about a code zero sail, jib I think, made of really thin cloth- maybe ripstop. Anyway, it was so light that it took hardly any wind to fill it to it's shape and that translated to- forward progress or anit-boredom! Maybe I'll look through my past issues of G.O.B. mag.
Bob23

[Shawn]

Bob,

That would be a drifter, I have one on order from Kelly Hanson. In my case I got a 170% (200 square feet), high cut foot, 1.5 ounce fabric, hanked on sail.

They also offer 0.75 ounce fabric if desired to be even lighter and it can be ordered to be set flying. I wanted the hanks for better upwind performance, set flying would let you open it up more for downwind performance.

Downwind I'll use my asymmetric spinnaker which makes a huge difference in light air. Last sail of the season I was on a broad reach in lightish air (5-8kots) doing about a knot and a half. Put up the spinnaker and we were up to 4.5 knots.

I had numerous frustrating light air days last season, can't wait to see how the drifter helps out there.

Shawn

[Bob23]

yeah, that's it-a drifter, just like the 60's motown band!
Thanks for the info.
Bob23

[capt_nemo]

For what it's worth, the article in "Good Old Boat" Magazine that discussed light air sails was "The case for the light-air mainsail" by Ed Zacko in Issue 70 Jan/Feb 2010. It was precisely this article that inspired me to make a Rip Stop Nylon Drifter for my SunCat. I am extremely pleased with its performance, and the difference it has made in my enjoyment of light air sailing!