Mystery Rudder

[Dave-in-RI]

I recently acquired a 2010 Sun Cat which came with what appear to be two rudders, neither attached to the boat. One is the standard metal plate, the other is a taller, thicker, foiled design (not a RudderCraft). The boat came with both the lifting line/shackle and the lock-down bar. Does anyone recognize the thicker rudder? Also in the boat were various components from the prior owner (now deceased, can't ask questions) that do not match the boat-- spare boat parts, good misc. hardware to have around, and I'm just curious if the second rudder was a Compac design, an aftermarket for the Sun Cat, or from some other boat altogether that should be considered "spare parts". This mystery rudder was inside the lazarette. Penny for your thoughts! UPDATE-- pics seemed to have loaded in strange proportions (sorry) but open correctly in a new tab; might just be my own browser. Also, my fingers are crossed no one will tell me the mystery rudder is actually the centerboard! (the prior owner had taken everything off the boat, rigging, shrouds, etc., so it wouldn't surprise me)

[Cpy23ecl]

While I'm not familiar with the Cats, the foiled rudder looks like the later compac built rudders (very similar to my Eclipse rudder) and the flat plate looks like what earlier compacs used (like what I had on my 84 Compac 23).

I'm betting the previous owner replaced the flat plate rudder as they worked poorly at best and almost not at all at very slow speeds.

Fred

[Andre]

Although I have no experience with Sun Cats, I agree with Fred. The flat plate rudder looks very similar to the one on my PC, and the foiled rudder looks very much like my HC's. So both appear to be sourced from Com-Pac.

Andre

[Dave-in-RI]

Thanks, all. I emailed Matt Hutchins (parts manager) and he just got back to me. I'm pasting here for other Sun Cat owners out there:

"The flat plate rudder blade is the standard rudder blade for all years of the Sun Cat. That foil blade is from our Eclipse, but works on a Sun Cat, the Sun Cat and Eclipse use the same rudder head. Some Sun Cat customers request a foil blade and that is what we use. We don't feel the performance difference between the two are worth the expense for the Sun Cat, so  the flat blade is standard. The foil blade will float , so it has to be used with the "steel bar" hold down handle."

[bruce]

That's a $793.03 upgrade: $598.03 for the blade, $195.00 for the control arm. Worth playing with after you've sorted out the other things you want to do. Be glad you didn't pay retail. There's lots of post here regarding the control arm...not always plug and play.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xtfxq40jvl9esw9/AADHttjwMACdw5Voo2NYBoLVa?oref=e&preview=ECLIPSE+2023.pdf

Having foiled my rudder, I'd agree the performance hadn't improved as much as I'd expected. I think there is more experience with the RudderCraft rudder on the SC (not necessarily the full system), and many are happy with the change. HDPE (StarBoard) does float somewhat, and is used for the RudderCraft cheeks, but the bigger issue is the stock aluminum rudder, which obviously doesn't float, will lift underway at about 3 knots, and has to be held down. The stock tensioning pivot is under-whelming for several reasons. There are other, more elegant, hold-down solutions.

[Cpy23ecl]

My experience with the foiled rudder on my eclipse is such that I feel the rudder doesn't perform well.  The boat ends up in irons as often as it tacks successfully.

My 23 had the original flat blade rudder and would often end up in irons when tacking in light winds and it lost all steering ability when the boat was barely moving.  I upgraded to the ruddercraft full system.  Night and day difference!  Never ended up in irons while tacking after that and had good steering even when barely moving.  Also eliminated the need to remove the rudder blade when trailering, much easier to raise and lower the blade and no longer had to mess with the pivot bolt tension to keep the rudder from lifting as boat speed increased.  All around a much better rudder system. 

I'm seriously considering replacing the eclipse rudder with a ruddercraft to see if it resolves my tacking issues.

[Eddie C]

I had my Eclipse for only 3 seasons but had no issues with going into irons, rounding up or slow speed maneuvering. The only time I couldn?t complete a tack was in strong wind under jib only. There has been discussion in the forum in the past regarding the issue of going into irons. I?m sure you have tried the suggestions given but I?m wondering- is it possible that you are over-steering and turning the rudder into a break? I have changed rudders on a Suncat (IdaSailor) and Sundaycat (custom) with good results but honestly don?t think a rudder change is necessary on an Eclipse. Regards, Eddie C

[Cpy23ecl]

I've tried turning quickly, turning slowly, turning more into the wind and sheeting in before tacking, tacking from a reach, nothing has helped.  I've tried each of those things in light, moderate, and heavy winds.  Talked to compac about it and they are at a loss as well.  The only thing that has helped, but not eliminated irons, is leaving the jib sheeted and back wind it before releasing the jib sheet and hauling in the sheet for the new course.

My mast has a considerable forward rake as set up from the factory, and this season I'm going to change it to plumb or even a slight rake aft and see if that makes a difference.  If not I'll either try the ruddercraft rudder or change boats.

[Eddie C]

Best of luck. Mast rake is way beyond my level of experience. Everyone I?ve read about has been happy with Ruddercraft rudders so it may be worth a try. Eddie