Scupper Valves (again)

[NateD]

I have read through most of the posts that come up when I search on scuppers, but I am wondering if anyone has anything new to add. My 81 CP16 does not have any kind of flap on the transom where the scuppers drain out. When the outboard is pushing hard, or two people sit toward the back of the cockpit, I get water coming up through the scuppers. From other posts, and looking over the current parts list from Hutchins, it looks like some later models came with scupper valves from the factory. This post (http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=969.0) says that the SeaDog scupper valve (part: 520500-1) fits as a replacement. I've found these available from a number of sites (http://www.opentip.com/Sporting-Goods/Seadog-Scupper-Valve-Hole-p-667364.html). But it looks like it just uses 4 screws/bolts through the hull to attach.

I already have my battery located up in the chain locker, and there isn't much other weight I can move forward to keep the transom up, and I want to stop the water from coming up the scuppers. I have run across some people who just plug them up (from inside the cockpit) with stoppers, but I would like to avoid that if I can to make sure water will find it's way out of the cockpit if I get swamped. So, what do you folks think? Get these valves and bolt through the hull? Just use a bunch of sealant/5200 and basically paste them on? Is there a better valve or some type of check valve that I could insert into the scupper drain?

[mrb]

G Evening NateD

My 16 does not have scupper valves either.  The way I view it is that if I have water comming in then I have too much weight aft and boat is not going to handle as well as she should.  Even when I am alone, which is most of the time, I sat as far forward as possible.  Not so far forward that It is uncomfortable to reach tiller of course. This helps to keep the bow down in the water where it belongs and also keeps my weight at outboard where it helps to stay on an even keel. As much as possible.

I also like the open scupper so that water can drain out as needed.

melvin

[don l]

NateD, just a few thoughts on what we have and do on our CP16.  Take what I say with a lot of salt.  We have a battery in the forepeak, an a 5 Hp outboard on the back.  The boat looks level from the dock.  The wife sits at the companion way or a little port or starboard as needed.  We have marine plugs, we put in at the dock or at anchor to keep our feet dry.  When sailing the plugs are out the hatch to the cabin in closed.  Yes my feet can get wet,  but I am bare foot anyway.  I believe  Melvin is right on his body position which I am learning to do, still very new at this.  A book to read on CP16 is ?HandBook of Trailer Sailing? by Robert F. Burgess.  I have read most of it 3 times.  Hope this helps. Maybe skip and others  could be of greater help.

don

[NateD]

Thanks for the suggestions. I try to sit forward as well, but when you get two or three 200+ pound guys and a gal on the boat, you end up sitting where there is room, not where the weight is best distributed. During the summer wet feet won't be a big problem, but it's pretty cold still in MN, so I'm still wearing shoes on the boat.

I don't think the scupper flaps will work perfectly all of the time and would still expect to get some water coming up the scupper, but it would be nice stop some of it.

[doug]

Nate --

from my wet feet experience, the scupper flaps don't prevent water from entering the cockpit when the cockpit is full, people are sitting in the rear of the cockpit, following seas or significant heeling. Most of the time we simply don't plug and potentially get wet feet in the event of heeling or following seas. If we load the cockpit with 3 or more adults and the water is relatively calm, the plugs go in to keep thing dry.

Lots of people feel strongly about plugging the scuppers and the like so you will need to decide whats right for you factoring in the weather conditions but don't count on the flaps from stopping the water.

doug

[mrb]

NateD
If you can live with a little less cock pit floor to seat distance and depending on how deep the water is you could try making a wood slat floor insert, much like the teak grate used as shower floors or cock pit floors.  I have made a grate floor for another boat but that takes a lot of cutting and would add to much weight to what sounds like an already overloaded boat.  The slat board would save some weight, is simpler to make, adds a little more height,and still looks good.
Just had to take a break to go out and view first fire flies of spring and smell honeysuckle on the air.
One other idea is that I used to see a type of valve that went on back of small boats to keep water from entering boat in conditions as you describe.  It was cup (large shot glass) shaped maybe 3" long with a slot opening on underside. Inside was what was probable a ping pong ball which acted as the valve.  When boat was sitting high as at dock or anchor with no one aboard the ball would roll to end of cup allowing rain water to drain out.  If boat was loaded to point where scupper outlets were under water the ball would float forward and close scupper hole.  It has been 25 years or longer since I have seen any of these. I was living in New Orleans at the time and small boat sailing was big at that time. If you live close to any large marine stores that specialize in sailing you may still be able to find some. Good luck in your search for a remedy.  Melvin

[romei]

Here's what I think you're looking for, but this one isn't the right size.  The good news is, if they make this in this size, someone prolly makes one smaller.

http://www.jmsonline.net/THRU-HULL-SCUPPER.htm

google inline scupper valve

I got lots of interesting leads

Also, on Hutchin's CP16 parts list on page 3 there is part number RA00D0110 Drain Scupper $4.17

Might not hurt to give a call and see what that's all about.  If it's not what you need I bet you'll be talking to the guy who knows what you need.

[B.Hart]

I'm a plugger, most of the time. In the summer with swimming to cool off I don't mind the wet feet, also if the weather turns foul I remove the plugs and put the hatch board in!   HAPPY SAILING   BILL

[Rick Klages]

I have flappers but all they do is stop the worst of a following sea from boarding through the scuppers.  The scuppers are otherwise above the waterline.  If your cockpit is always wet with water boarding through the scuppers your boat is out of trim.  Move or add weight to the bow.  She will sail best when sailing on her "lines".  A symptom of too much weight aft is a wet cockpit sole. She will be unbalanced and sail sluggishly.

[NateD]

Thanks everyone for your replies. The cockpit sole is usually dry under sail if I can get the people on board spread out. It sounds like the scupper flaps aren't a big help, so I'll scratch that idea. I'm going to explore some of the in-line valves and possibly splice one into the pipes that lead from the cockpit out to the stern. I moved up to the 16 from smaller wet boats with the idea that I would stay pretty dry on the com-pac, and I could extend the sailing season (which is mighty short in MN). I'll post pictures if I find something that works well.

[Tic Tack 2]

I have a 1985 CP-16 and have owned it for a number of years now. When I first got it I too had this issue of the water in the cockpit. I went to West marine and bought the Flow max Ball Scuppers part # 1930353. These are self sealing and really do the trick.

I have read through most of the posts that come up when I search on scuppers, but I am wondering if anyone has anything new to add. My 81 CP16 does not have any kind of flap on the transom where the scuppers drain out. When the outboard is pushing hard, or two people sit toward the back of the cockpit, I get water coming up through the scuppers. From other posts, and looking over the current parts list from Hutchins, it looks like some later models came with scupper valves from the factory. This post (http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=969.0) says that the SeaDog scupper valve (part: 520500-1) fits as a replacement. I've found these available from a number of sites (http://www.opentip.com/Sporting-Goods/Seadog-Scupper-Valve-Hole-p-667364.html). But it looks like it just uses 4 screws/bolts through the hull to attach.

I already have my battery located up in the chain locker, and there isn't much other weight I can move forward to keep the transom up, and I want to stop the water from coming up the scuppers. I have run across some people who just plug them up (from inside the cockpit) with stoppers, but I would like to avoid that if I can to make sure water will find it's way out of the cockpit if I get swamped. So, what do you folks think? Get these valves and bolt through the hull? Just use a bunch of sealant/5200 and basically paste them on? Is there a better valve or some type of check valve that I could insert into the scupper drain?

[mrb]

NateD

Check out the West site for the FLOWMAX BALL SCUPPER Tic Tack 2 found, I think it is the same thing I was trying to describe from years ago.  If still around after this time it should work.

Good luck

melvin

[NateD]

Tic Tack, thanks for the exact part number. I went to the local West Marine store to take a look at them, and of course they didn't have them in stock. How far do they stick out from the transom? Do they just screw into the fiberglass?

[Craig Weis]

Who would have thunk it? Vertical toilet valves for scupper~stoppers :-}
LOL skip.

[Tic Tack 2]

Naturally, I've notice my local West Marine is not stocked as well as you would think they needed to be either, anyway  the scuppers stick out approx. 1 -1/2" - 2 " not noticable at all, they mount using 4 small stainless screws. I predrilled and used some 5200 to make sure of the seal. Works like a charm,

Tic Tack, thanks for the exact part number. I went to the local West Marine store to take a look at them, and of course they didn't have them in stock. How far do they stick out from the transom? Do they just screw into the fiberglass?