Musings about buying

[Keith]

Howdy All,

Just wanted to introduce myself and say hello.  I am a long time lurker in here.  I do not currently have a boat, but I'm wanting to change that.  I have been reading all of the different posts that talk about finding an old, fixer upper and restoring it.  I'm kind of handy with tools but I've never tackled that kind of project.  Hence the musings ....  Does it make more sense to buy a cheap, fixer upper or to spend the bucks for a nicer, ready to go vessel?  Would you typically end up spending as much to fix one up as you would buying a nice one?

Thanks,
Keith

[Paul]

Keith:

First of all, Howdy!! and welcome to the forum!  You're in the right place. 

Second, well, that all depends on several factors;1) the number of worthy candidates to purchase in your area, 2)the amount of  money are you willing to spend, 3) time you have available for projects, 4) projected time to start sailing her instead of fixing her.  There are probably more factors, but that's a start.  Any other members may feel free to add to the list.  Expect projects to take eight times longer to complete than you budgeted.

Please also note regarding number two above, there are some folks on the forum that were given boats.  That's quite rare, but glad it happens. 

Having said that, if you love doing DIY work in general, then you may like a fixer upper.  Working with fiberglass and epoxy can be quite rewarding.  And, it's not rocket science, to boot.   Actually, it's quite forgiving.  There is much information on the web and in publication regarding boat projects.  I can refferance some if you'd like.

As for my experience, I've learned quite a few lessons from working on "Little Wing."  Lessons in boatworks and lessons in patience and perfectionism.  Personally, I have set my priorities on my family first, then work, and finally, the boat.  Life happens.  So, make sure your priorities and expectations are realistic.  Also, consider this:  Every blasted thing on that boat is connected.  So, you may start one project, then it may morph into another, then another, etc.  Don't ask me how I know.    I thoroughly enjoy "messing around with boats" as well as sailing them, so I am having fun working on mine.  I have given up on firmly setting a splash date just so I don't stress myself out with deadlines.  I have enough of them already, so I don't need to ruin fun work with them as well.

As for the cost, it is likely that if your priority is more toward sailing than fixing, then you would do well to purchase a quality boat and then personalize it when you're not sailing it.

$0.03
(I usually don't write this much, so the extra penny) 

[multimedia_smith]

Hi and Welcome!
As far as what condition to buy... I'd have to agree with Paul... better to personalize and do "fun" modifications in between sailing it.  These are not really expensive boats, so you're not talking about a major investment anyway.

I'd buy the one in the best condition you can find... remember, this is something you're going to be depending upon for your (and your loved ones) SAFETY.  You want to have confidence when you take it into what could be a dangerous place.  It's kind of like an airplane in that sense... that's why "marine grade" and "aircraft grade" fittings and fasteners cost so much more.

You're probably going to want to replace the standing rigging if it hasn't been recently replaced by the PO... and then little projects will present themselves as you go along anyway... small leaks etc.  But the major thing is that the hull is sound.  These boats are so solidly built, it's not likely to be an issue... look for cracks, soft spots, spiderweb stress marks and general state of care.  You might have a knowledgable third party accompany you (they won't have an emotional attachment either).

There are always a couple of these boats around... so look, listen, and wait... 'till the right one comes along... (and hopefully) you'll have it a lot longer than the musing phase.

Wishing you the best
Dale

[Lost Lake]

I paid $3500 for my CP19 and it is in fantastic condition, with a 9.9 Mercury and 6 sails, and everything from flares to bumpers and life jackets included. These are not expensive boats, and now I can concentrate on sailing and upgrading!

[Rick Klages]

I spent a bit more but my c-16 was complete in the sense that I could have gone sailing  5 seconds after the deal was done.  Don't discount the joy of getting a boat that has all the equipment needed, wanted and required: signal devices, pfds, working lights, properly maintained trailer and on and on.  Sometimes for just a few dollars more. Not to mention spare parts (I'm currently buried in spares of everything). All I needed for a nice afternoon sail was a snack and some cold drinks.  It also pays to take the time to try and get an idea about the previous owner. I had this opportunity and found that I had made a new friend.  Look for a boat that was cherished. In my case I won't have to buy a thing for the next season or two.  There is a reward for bringing things back from the brink of oblivion. But it's not exactly sailing.

Good hunting.

Rick

[B.Hart]

   I found my 16 in a local newspaper and brought it home for 1000$. The boat was in much better shape than first believed. The po had bought the boat to restore and never touched it. Two months later and 500$  I was sailing my near original c-p 16. sometimes a little effort makes the reward greater. I have restored power boats and resold them and like rick said when you sell them most people want a turn key boat. GOOD LUCK with the search    BILL

[Gil Weiss]

I'm the guy who sold Rick his "new" boat. I just bought a "new" 1983 CP19 for which many would say I paid too much.

In my years of experience in building boats from scratch, dealing with fixeruppers and, after getting older and wiser, buying boats in good shape ready to use I am convinced the old saying "pay now or pay later" prevails". Everytime I took a fixerupper and got it to the condition I wanted it it was obvious that between the money it cost and the sweat it took I lost. Yes, I did feel great about my accomplishment, but it wound up costing more then buying a decent shape boat to begin with.

Many said I overpaid when I bought "Steppin' Up" the CP16 that Rick now owns. Well, I personally take great pride in my boats and other stuff I own and I strive to keep everything looking and operating as well as possible. That's just the way I am . . .I spent additional time and money upgrading Steppin' Up each year I owned her. I am a big believer in fine tuning a machine to get the best one can in performance. Relative to the CP16 I added the foiled rudder, a roller furling jib and even had the main sail headboard modified to achieve my desired result. This was all fun to me and as the boat got older it got better. (Wish I could say the same about me) When people saw my 1990 CP16 and asked if it was new I just smiled.

My "new" 1983 CP19 Suo Gan was a rare find in my mind. Had you asked me a few months ago if I would consider buying a 1983 model with a black hull I would have answered "absolutely no"! That was before I saw, inspected and sailed this boat. The terrific chap (Mark) who owned it the past 10-12 years did a wonderful job making that craft into a "show stopper". The black hull is in like new condition (Imeron paint several years old), the deck is clean and literally free of cracks, the entire boat is upholstered with Sunbrella custom cushions, the interior looks like new, etc. Did I overpay? I don't think so. Will I make more improvements? Yes I will, but she is ready to sail and Carole and I can't wait to show her off next season.

It's not about age, it is about condition. It is also about want you want out of a boat and how fastidious you are about its appearance. It's also about the fact that we only go around one time so enjoy life now. I'd rather be out on the water than laying under the hull repairing the keel. "Spend you penny and take your choice" an old sailor friend used to say . . . .I'm getting off my soap box now.

Cheers, Gil

[Cricket Crew]

Gil,
Just checked out your images ... Suo Gan is a GREAT looking boat! Love the color combination ... Congratulations on your 'new' boat!

I know what you mean about paying now or paying later ... My little Cricket is up on blocks in prep for the keel repair we THOUGHT this spring would go quickly, without too much trouble ... HA! Once she was off the trailer and up, we could really see all the problems ...

So ... the amount of money I SAVED, I am spending in TIME ... hmmmmm ...

Later,
AJ

[Gil Weiss]

AJ,

Yeh, that's the kind of thing I have run into before. Based on about 7 personal experiences it would have been cheaper in the long run to buy a useable craft early on rather then go the fixerupper route. I drove used cars for many years until I ran the math. I now find it cheaper to buy new, get a good warranty and enjoy not dealing with repair bills and hassle all the time.

I admit there is some luck involved in all of this. There are also safety issues and the risk of a poor outcome relative to the fixerupper route.

Good luck with Cricket, Gil

[Rick Klages]

No matter what you buy you will change things. I know that I have.  Time and time again.

ick