Floation !

[Glenn Basore]

Hi All,

I' sail a Hunter 170, small day sail boat, lots of fun but want to move up to a more stable larger boat that I can still tow, I think the Eclipse might be what I'm looking for.

I would like to know how stable she is, does she have built in floation, and on a stock boat, what would be your up grades that you would have to have when buying the boat ? also, what type of trailer comes with the boat ? and brakes, electric or surge ?

at 59 yrs I need something easy/

Thanks for your suggestions
Glenn

[NormD]

Unless you plan on trying to accomodate more than 2 people overnight, the SunCat may be more up your alley. It's geared to very easy launching, and is a very stable little boat as well. The SunCat feels like a much larger boat on the water than it's 17' LOA would suggest.
The SunCat's gaff rig is much more efficient, and easily managed than you would imagine.
I sail Glass Tiger on the north shore of Lake Erie, which is far from a sheltered location!

[jmh123]

We had a Hunter 170 for several years, moved up to a 22 foot boat, then to an Eclipse.

We sail Muskegon Lake and Lake Michigan with her. She is very stable -and very different than the 170 in that department!

Though not as fast to rig as the 170, she's quite reasonable. We use the boom vang to raise the mast and I find it very easy.

Our dealer was a great help in making rigging decisions -and he has a number of things he does to customize the boat for his customers. If I recall correctly, the gin pole for mast raising is an extra and should be included. Though I don't know that it is necessary, we have lazy jacks and single line reefing system customized/installed by our dealer.

[Glenn Basore]

I do recall seeing your name on the Day sailor Forum or Hunter forum, cant remember which one.

sailing the 170 and sailing the Eclipse, how tender does the Eclipse feel ?

I know all boats are going to heel, thats OK, but how much heeling do you get ?

All though I sail the 170 at about 10 -15 degrees, its not UN common to have her rails in the water at times.

When I have my wife on board I try to sail as flat as possible as she does not like heeling over too much since we had capsized !

I guess any boat will capsize but I don't think the Eclipse would under most conditions and it most like would right her self don't you think with the heavy ballast ?

[jmh123]

We sailed the Hunter 170 on Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) -and there were many days she would have been overpowered. My wife, as yours, doesn't think heeling is the best part of sailing! (Actually, my wife wants to step on the cockpit seat from the dock and not have the boat move!)

The Eclipse is a displacement hull and has more ballast than the entire Hunter weighed. (I always thought of the crew as the ballast on the Hunter.) They really are very different designs. You will be aware of the difference the moment you step on board.

The Eclipse will heel - but remember that the further a displacement hull heels, the greater the righting moment. Also, as the boat heels, the angle of the sail to the wind is changing, both reducing the force exerted by the wind and lowering the center of effort.

The Eclipse heels to a certain point, then won't go much further. (-making exceptions, I suppose, for a poorly planned manuever). Exactly where this is with the Eclipse, I cannot say. (This is our first season with the Eclipse.)

Altho she doesn't travel as fast in light air as the 170, I do like her performance under these conditions. 

[Glenn Basore]

I don't understand the "technical" stuff of sailing so bare with me please.

I thought all hulls are "displacement hulls, thats what makes them float ?

I understand the more the boat heels, the more wind that is being dumped from the upper sail area, yes no ?, With the 700 lb ballast on the Eclipse that would be the counter force righting the boat, With that much weight, I don't think the Eclipse would capsize, it might get knock down where the sails may hit the water but wouldn't she just right her self instantly ?.......may be not in gale force conditions, but I wont be sailing in such conditions anyway.

So are all hulls displacement hulls ?

One last thing, what type of trailer came with your Eclipse ?

I saw one picture of an Eclipse sitting on her trailer, single axle, the trailer reminded me of the trailer I have for the 170, short trailer length and a narrow wheel base where by the wheels and fender are  underneath the boat rather than protruding beyond the width of the boat.

do you have brakes ?

[jmh123]

Yes, all hulls displace water. A displacement hull is designed to push through the water. A hull like the Hunter 170 is designed to skim across the top. This is simplistic, but you can 'google' "displacement hull" and finds lots of info.

Yes, the sail dumps more air as you heel. I think it would be very hard to capsize the Eclipse. Under the right conditions and with a wrong move, you might. (broaching in high waves?) I loose the main sheet before we get anywhere close to this kind of a situation --and like you, we try to avoid situations where we could be that badly overpowered.

Com-Pac changed their trailer supplier this year. The trailer we have was made by Magic-Tilt. It does not have brakes. If I recall correctly, total trailer weight is 2100 -and I didn't feel the need for trailer brakes while towing. The proportions of trailer and boat are as you describe. (There is a slight difference -  I assume your current trailer has rollers and you may pull the boat onto the trailer. With the Eclipse, we float the boat on and off the trailer [with only a little help from the trailer winch].)

[Glenn Basore]

I have a Venture trailer, the 170 rest on bunks, only one roller to wards the bow, just about where the frame of the trailer sides connect to the center of the trailer.

Thanks for your help, I have a better understanding of hull displacement.

now all I have to do is to convince the wife to move up to the Eclipse !

[Craig Weis]

In a Com-Pac there is no such thing as flotation. Fill her with ping pong balls and she still goes down. And it is not required by law to float when flooded. A early skip post explains and quotes the regulation.

Well I found the 'floatation post'...in my "profile" just click on the word 'skip', then under show posts, page #26, And/or in the Com-Pac 19 pages.
May 13, 2005
Post #501 [378]
Floatation Standards. [From the book].

Sorry but I can't figure out how to bring a quote from the past to the present.
So again look up my profile, click on posts and see page #26 skip.

[Glenn Basore]

All I get is "no results found " !

Glenn

[Paul]

Skip and all:

Found it.  Scroll down to the bottom of the page, last entry.  Here's the LINK.

[multimedia_smith]

HI Skip,
I just nervously read the quote from the regulations... I've been researching it, and can't seem to find the posts referring to the fact that although the 19 will sink, the 16 is supposed to be able to float fully swamped.  Do you recall any such detail?  or do we simply chalk it up to "urban myth"?
Dale
1988 CP 16-III

[Craig Weis]

Good post jmh123, Paul thanks for the link. Your dreaming...Well without trying it I would believe that a c-p 16 will sink like a rock when swamped, after all she has rock in her bottom and only open air in her head...I know our Star boat sank like a rock as that is where my dad bought the Star. On the bottom of Lake Michigan. Sight unseen. skip.