I think I have a problem

[pelican]

Very informative article with some great pics. I will share this with our locals

Good sailing

[davestlouis]

amazing article on the keel repair...using something like lead would certainly have its advantages over concrete.  How does the water in the concrete evaporate?  How long does it take to dry?  Would there be any purpose in using something other than concrete? 

[pelican]

amazing article on the keel repair...using something like lead would certainly have its advantages over concrete.  How does the water in the concrete evaporate?  How long does it take to dry?  Would there be any purpose in using something other than concrete? 

I agree it was a great article however, for our smaller boats I would be inclined to use concrete. It is cheap and would fill the keel.  A five gallon bucket of lead is considerably heavier then a five gallon bucket of concrete. After putting in the required weight  using lead, you would have to find filler material to finish filling the keel.

It would be a good idea to weigh the material you take out and replace with the same weight. Put it in 5 gallon buckets and put it on a scale. Mix the concrete stiff and I would give it a week or two before I resealed the floor over the keel.

Again for our boat, I would remove the thin layer of material over the keel inside the cabin and remove/replace the material from there. Lead would be a good option if you needed a large amount of weight and you have a limited amount of room to place it. Lead can get a lot of weight down very low.

You could mix lead with the concrete but personally I would stick to a solid concrete keel. There are probably many good approaches to making these repairs. Remember our boats come from the factory with solid concrete keels. Do what makes sense to you

[mgoller]

What would I do? 
I'd chip out the crumbly mess from the top.  I'd get an air hammer/chisel, a dust mask, gloves and go at it.  Scoop, chip, chisel and vaccum.  It isn't that big an area.
A bag of ready mix weighs 60 pounds and I think it is about 2 cubic feet.  You'll need 7 bags to get to 420 Lbs.  Then add 5 Lbs of epoxy to the top to seal.
The water added to concrete reacts with the lime to form a crystaline structure.  Some remains in molecular form and some evaporates.  I'd think 7 bags will do.

You could also take note of the level of the current ballast and be fine using that as a measure.

While you're at it, you might consider making a space in the ballast for the battery.  Some kind of wooden box form that could be pulled out later to make a nice nest for a battery.

Cement gets hot when it cures, you may want to occassionally check the fiberglass with your hand and hose it with cool water every half hour during the curing period.

I have heard some sailors have used lead which moves the weight down lower.  The boat would sail a little different then it was designed to do.  I imagine it would be a little stiffer and be reluctant to heel down to the rail.  I wouldn't do it. 
Let her sail like her sisters!

[davestlouis]

Well, I have watched my boss take the top cap off a Procraft fish and ski and rebuild the rotten wood stringers and floor.  If he can do that, surely I can make this Com-Pac come together successfully.

[pelican]

Well, I have watched my boss take the top cap off a Procraft fish and ski and rebuild the rotten wood stringers and floor.  If he can do that, surely I can make this Com-Pac come together successfully.

Thats the spirit , IMO.. removing a top cap and maintaining the boats proper shape and dimensions is considerably more difficult then your keel fix.

[davestlouis]

I'll dig into it over the weekend and take some pic's...I'll report as things progress.  Thanks for your input and suggestions.

[davestlouis]

I finally got energetic and dug the ballast out...that took a whole afternoon but it was so full of metal chunks that just beating on it with a chisel and small sledge loosened it.  The problem is that I found a hole on the port side that is 1/2 the height of the keel and 18 or so inches long, and it extends across the bottom of the keel so about 12 inches of the bottom is missing.  There is one crack about 6 inches up the other side.  How in the world do I form a new fiberglass shell in roughly the correct shape?  How perfect does the shape need to be for the boat to work properly? 

[Craig Weis]

I have never done this, but I would consider sanding and roughing up the outer surface of the keel to a point where a little glass cloth and epoxy resin could re-new the keel and any holes or open areas would be closed up watertight.

Once the outside of the keel is nice then work on chopping out the inside as other have talked about. It is not that large an area, really. Should go fast. A couple of days.

All Com-Pacs have a mix of scrap iron and concreate [I was told at a boat show by Rich Hutchins] and I see no reason to change that.
So I would weigh up 100~150 lb, about 1/4 of the ballast using iron. For pig iron I like the old counter weights for casement windows. Those are just round bars of iron.

Support the keel and lay down some cement, then the iron and top off the keel with cement. Rent a vibrator to knock out any air bubbles in the cement. You should notice some temperature in the mix as it starts to cure and turn cement into concrete.

Now in my former job we made cement lined steel tanks for water heating and a controlled drying time was crucial to eliminate cracks in the mix.

We had to spray water on a mixture of cement made from 4~100 lb bags of sieved 60 mil sand and 2~80 lb bags of expanding cement in order to slow the dry time, this cement shrinks less then normal cement. The cement is the kind used in highway bridges and roadways. The quanity of bags above lined about 25 tanks.
Actually I can buy these materials at the local building supply house in Sturgeon Bay!!!

Three days and the concreate would be set enough to finish the build.
One could pour on some lacquerer to seal the water in and slow the cure time a day or two. This seal would be after the reaction [heat] stops and before too much water evaps. A couple of hours after the pour. You would only cover the top of the keel's shape.

If you listen to the concreate experts they say that 88 years is the actual cure time of concreate. So don't worry about that. She will just keep shrinking and drying. skip.

[Paul]

Thought I'd chime in, too.  Sounds like everyone's recommended the removal of the ballast.  Sounds like you've tackled that.  Sounds like you need to replace the ballast.

My question is:  How did you repair the keel?  If you haven't yet, then let me recommend the handbook published by West System entitled "Fiberglass Boat Repair and Maintenance."  Chapter 8 details repairing keels and rudders.  Costs about $6.00.  Go to the West System web site or any Marine Supply Store.  I have found the info very helpful!

(I have stake in West System, etc., etc......)

Hope this helps.

Paul

[davestlouis]

Thanks for the advice.  I won't have time this weekend to attack this project, working too much, but I'm amazed at how quickly the ballast removal went: it really was a crumbly mess.  It looks like my neighbor wants to trade my VW Cabriolet for an O'Day 20 in cosmetically-challenged but usable condition, so I may be getting yet another boat.