Found a 27

[Renae]

There is a 27 not terribly far from where I live, and I may be going to see it in the next few days.  It shows well in the photo the owner sent, but we've all seen that Jeckyl and Hyde show before.

I plan to continue to do my spur-of-the-moment sailing on my Suncat, but I'd very tempted to put a 27 on one of the larger lakes of Minnesota (Minnetonka, Pepin, Superior).

Going into this, I'm not as ready to evaluate as I would like to be.  I have it on my to-do list to read up on maintenance of a marine diesel.  I have owned and maintained an 18 HP Kubota tractor for about 15 years (old changes, HST changes, fuel/air filters, etc), but all of this on dry land with indoor parking.  How hard do you think it will be to make the mental switches?  What tasks rise to the top of maintenance for a diesel on the 27?

Once I see the boat, I'll have a better idea about the price point fairness, but it looks reasonable for now.

[BobK]

The engine in a 27 is easily accessible from both the cabin and the cockpit.  I use an oil extractor pump for changing oil in both the engine and  transmission.  Both the fuel and oil filters are easily reached.  The engine zink is bolted in the heat exchanger.  Engine maintenance is fairly easy to perform.
BobK

[rogerschwake]

  I owned a 27, or it owned me for 6 years. It was a 1989 model with a 2 cylinder Kubota about 12 horse power. The boat is a good sailor with great accommodations bellow. Sailed it single handed a lot with no problems. If you have any questions just give me a call.

ROGER

[Renae]

  I owned a 27, or it owned me for 6 years. It was a 1989 model with a 2 cylinder Kubota about 12 horse power. The boat is a good sailor with great accommodations bellow. Sailed it single handed a lot with no problems. If you have any questions just give me a call.

ROGER

You're the perfect person to talk to, seeing as how you know my boat, the CP27, AND Lake Pepin.  On a lake that narrow, I think ability to point is worth it's weight in gold.  I've sailed it with my Suncat a few times and it was challenging to move against challenging winds that tend to set themselves up along the axis of the lake.  I found I was always either flying or fighting.

Does the 27 point any better, or just have a bigger motor?  As you probably know, I electrified your former boat, and I'm not much for motoring beyond getting away from the dock.

[rogerschwake]

  I think the 27 would work great for you. Sailed mine on Lake Red Rock here in Iowa for 3 years and Pepin for maybe 4 years. Red Rock is much smaller than Pepin and had no problems on either lake. It points better than you Sun Cat and as good as any boat build for cruising, should be no problem at all. This is a great sailing boat and very easy to handle. The Pepin City Marina is one of the nieces marinas in the upper Midwest, a fine place to keep a boat. Let me know if I can help.

ROGER

[Renae]

I went to look at the 27.  It showed really well in the water, at the dock (yes, I know--that's not enough; read on).  The current owners weren't mechanically inclined, but but made sure that the boat was regularly serviced by professionals.  One of them was good with wood, and did a nice job of keeping the boat in tip-top shape cosmetically. 

He disclosed that he had a repair done to the keel a couple of years ago.  They gave me the name of the person from the marina who did the repair, and called that person to authorize him to tell me about it (outstanding/reassuring owner behavior).  The repair person had 10+ years in repair work.  He described multiple smallish areas of delamination along the sides of the keel.  The repair was a couple of years ago, so he didn't remember all details, but he also was forthright and described the repair:

1.  Grinding down to healthy, in one or two areas, down to concrete.
2.  Multilayer fiberglass repair
3.  Bottom paint (no gelcoat repair)

He was confident that the repair was solid/adequate.  I was a bit surprised by #3, but he didn't think it was problematic and thought the boat ought to have a normal lifespan going forward.  He regularly services this boat, and says that the bilge has always been clean and dry subsequently.  He doesn't recall if he was the one servicing the boat prior to the repair, but thought that the bilge had been dry even before the repair (i.e. the delamination was noticed on lift out, not because of gross intrusion).  He expressed that if one were concerned that not all areas of demage were detected, he would be willing to essentially cut out the bottom of the keel, remove the concrete, sand/repair/fair the keel completely 360 degrees around, and refill concrete from the top.  In fact, he had offered that to the current owners, but it was anticipated to be rather expensive $5K+ and felt like a more moderate approach could work.

I'm curious how much of a big deal CP27 owners see here.  Personally, I'll probably pass on the boat, and am leaning against paying for a marine inspection, but perhaps I'm overly concerned.  I am generally of the opinion that bottom issues are far more important than topside cosmetics, even if the latter do convey a degree of owner diligence and care.

I'm am still concerned that I am a bit too tall for a 27.  Walking around the cabin somewhat stooped isn't necessarily the issue, but wondering if I can sleep comfortably in any of the berth options is more of a question.

Thoughts from owners?

[wes]

I wish they had applied a proper epoxy barrier coating (Interlux 2000 or similar) after the keel repair and before the anti fouling paint. You might want to clarify whether or not this was done. It provides very good protection against osmotic blistering, which 27s are prone to develop. With a good barrier coat I would have absolutely no worries about this boat. Without it I would assume that sooner or later you're going to need to do this. It is way less than the $5k repair.

Wes

[Renae]

Wes,

Helpful comment.  I didn't ask what they used, and I will.  This boat has been freshwater for 9 years and would be going forward (less blistering concern?).  My understanding was just that gelcoat was necessary to prevent moisture intrusion into fiberglass.  My understanding may well be incorrect.  I'm learning many things as a boat owner, but fiberglass repair is not yet on my "been there, done that" list. 

I'm still mulling this one a bit.

Thanks.

[wes]

Gelcoat is primarily cosmetic. Below the waterline, there is no important reason to replace gelcoat that has been removed during a repair, assuming you plan to cover it with anti fouling paint. Epoxy barrier coat like 2000e essentially replaces the gelcoat and does a far better job of preventing osmosis.

My fresh water 27 developed many blisters over the years it was kept in the river at St. Louis by the previous owner. I repaired several hundred of them with epoxy filler and then applied three or four coats of 2000e without bothering to use gelcoat. Hulls of that era (1988 inmy case) were typically made with polyester compounds, which are more prone to osmotic blistering than the vinylester compounds that were developed in later years.

This advice obviously wouldn't apply to a boat that's used for day sailing and stored on a trailer, whose owner doesn't need anti fouling paint. In that situation gelcoat repair would be appropriate.

Wes