Trailer questions

[Fastdoc98]

First off, is everybody doing okay out there?  It's been really quiet in the forum lately - not sure if that means everybody is out sailing or what.  I know for me I haven't splashed in weeks.  Between work schedule and the absolute LACK of wind lately there's been no chance to sail.  So instead I put new fenders on my trailer.  The fenders that were on it were aluminum Jeep-style fenders that were barely attached with some flimsy screws and pieces of aluminum stock and were split and cracked and rattled and clanked down the road and I was just done with them.  Ordered some plastic ones from Etrailer and had a local welder attach brackets for me.  Much improved, they don't rattle and they'll never rust or corrode.  The welder was talking with me about the boat (he was fascinated and had lots of people asking about it while it was in his shop) and he commented on the weight trying to move it.  We started talking about brakes and it got me thinking about it more.  Here in Illinois, the law says that any trailer over 3000 lbs requires brakes, one on each side.  With the 2200 lb weight of an empty boat and I'm assuming a trailer weight of at least 800 lbs that puts me right at the limit.  I'm sure with motor, battery, fuel, water, all the junk you need for sailing I'm at or over the 3000 lb limit.  In looking at the trailer I can't see how you could rig brakes on it though.  The axle is galvanized box-section that is bent down in the center to clear the keel rest and the spindles have no flange to mount brakes.  I can't just replace the axle with a Dexter unit because it won't clear the keel rest, so would I have to have new spindles welded on to the current axle?  It looks like most spindles to be welded on are round stock, so not sure how that would work.  Anyone have any knowledge or experience with this?   Mine is a 2009, so not sure if things changes over the newer year models.

[brackish]

A couple of comments.

1. has it been a problem.  Have you had trouble stopping without the brakes or every time you hit the brakes a little hard the anti lock system kicks in?
2. Is it routinely enforced in your state.  In my state it is 2000 lbs., yet trailers without brakes are sold all over the state with capacities well over 2K.  I have never heard of any enforcement efforts.
3. Are you sure of the weight?  My dual axle 4500 lb. capacity trailer for my 23 lists a tare weight of 950.  Seems like yours would be quite a bit less and should have a plate on it that gives its weight.  I think most metal scrap dealers will let you drive across and give you the weight if you have one close by.

I hear you about hot, windless days.  That's where we are now.

[slode]

That surprises me you don't have flanges on the axle for mounting brake shoe sets/calipers.  My 2007 Performance trailer does.  I've been thinking of adding brakes to mine, along with upgrading to 13" wheels.  But I'm going to wait till my newer set of 10" tires are ready for replacement.  I've only had the ABS on our Audi Q5 come on a couple of times when doing a hard stop.  But we have an 18' Glastron powerboat on a trailer with surge brakes that's about the same weight and it's much easier to stop.

[Fastdoc98]

I've never had a problem towing so far, but admittedly I've not had any situations come up that were a full panic stop.  But that's the thing with something like this: it isn't a problem until it is one.  I've not heard of anyone in the state really enforcing it, but this is probably more for my peace of mind.  I'm hauling with a Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk which seems to be plenty robust for the job.  I did some looking around and I could get a replacement axle, 2 x 2 galvanized with the V drop in the middle for around $270 or so, but then would still need to add drums, electric brakes, and a controller.  Plus new wiring since the current is a flat 4 that I would have to change to 7 pin.  After having hydraulic discs on my last 2 powerboats I don't think I want to go back to that set-up. 

[Cpy23ecl]

Michigan also legally requires brakes at 3000lb gvw and above so I special ordered my trailer with larger tires and hydraulic surge disc brakes.  Probably would never have a problem but it would make a big difference in a panic stop.  Also the liability would be great if you had an accident (especially if your fault) and the other party's lawyer discovered your trailer wasn't legal.  It just wasn't worth the risk to me so I paid the extra money for the larger tires and disc brakes.  Cost for the new trailer last year was 5245.

I can also say that having discs instead of drums makes a big difference as well.

You don't necessarily need a 5 pin connector for brakes.  The 5th pin is needed if you don't want to have to get out of the tow vehicle and lock out the brakes to back up.

Fastdoc, I'm curious as to why you didn't like hydraulic disc brakes.  I've found them to be vastly superior to the hydraulic drum brakes on the trailer for my 23 plus they have the benefit of being cheaper to replace when needed and never need adjusting.

Went out sailing today.  The forecast said sunny with 10 to 15 kt winds from the north.  It started raining as I pulled into the marina but was lucky that it only lasted a few minutes.  Hit Lk MI with 8 to 10 kt winds from the north long enough to sail 2 or 3 miles offshore and then the wind all but died.  Tacked and headed back to shore and ghosted along between 0.5 and 1 kt until we got about 2/3 of the way back when the came back around 4 to 6 kts from the south.  All in all a so so sail but at least it was pleasant on the water.

Fred

[Fastdoc98]

Fred, I'm jealous you were even able to get out on the water!  Around here the wind speed is measured as 'calm'.  The disc brakes I found to be a pain as it seemed like I was frequently bleeding them because of moisture/contamination in the fluid and then pistons corroding and getting stuck.  I seem to remember having to mess with them almost on an annual basis with my Four Winns.  4 wheel Kodiak treated discs/calipers with a Triton surge.  Or the back-up solenoid would go out and I couldn't get it backed up the driveway without uncoupling the quick-connect which would then leak air into the system and need to be re-bled.  What components did they put on your new one?

[Cpy23ecl]

Guess I'll find out how they are long term.  I just got them working a month ago.  Apparently Magic Tilt overfilled the hubs with grease and contaminated the rotors with grease that was flung from the hub during delivery to Mich.  I cleaned the rotors thoroughly with acetone but they still didn't work when I tested them immediately after cleaning. 

I had to take the boat back to the dealer because of a delaminated cockpit floor and mentioned the brakes.  After the floor was fixed Rob mentioned the brakes worked for him so apparently driving the 130 or so miles from my house to the dealer was enough to wear the grease off the pads once the rotors had been cleaned.  So at this point I only have a couple hundred miles on the trailer after the brakes started working and one launch since I keep the boat in a slip all season so I won't know for a (hopefully) for a few years what kinds of issues I'll have.

My brother has a 22ft power boat that has hydraulic surge disc brakes on the trailer and he trailers and launches at least 8 times a month now for 3 years and so far has had no problems so I'm hoping I'll fare as well.

I don't know what the components are.  I'll have to take a closer look to see I can find any indication.  One trick I was shown to back the trailer if the solenoid fails is to find a large nut that fits in the slot on the coupler and tape it in place to back up.  That's enough to prevent the brakes from activating.

Fred

[Andre]

Fred,

I used to tape a socket in the brake slot too, UNTIL I came across these high-strength magnets.  I use 2, one on each side, tied together with a piece of line and keep 2 spares in the car. This is on a HC trailer. They are strong though so keep them away from anything susceptible. They work like a charm, won't come off until you want them to!

Lots of other cool magnets as well ....

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=180


Andre

[Cpy23ecl]

Yeah those magnets would work like a charm. 

In fact my brother had his boat in for service early this spring and someone pulled out in front of his brand new Silverado and took out the front end just before he needed to go pick up his boat from the shop.  We took my Colorado to get his boat and as we were hooking the trailer we noticed a tab sticking out of the coupler slot, but neither of us was sure if that was always there or something new.  We tried to remove it but apparently the shop had backed the trailer into the spot it was parked and the coupler had put enough pressure on the piece that we couldn't remove it. 

As we were driving I kept telling my brother that I thought his brakes weren't working because the boat was really pushing the truck when braking and I needed to use a higher pedal pressure than normal.  It wasn't till we got the boat back to his house that we realized it was a magnetic brake override stop that the shop had used as they moved the boat around.

Funny thing was he got a call a couple weeks later asking if he had seen the piece and if so could they get it back.

Fred

[Fastdoc98]

With my previous boat I felt like a lot of the brake problems were from the infrequent use.  Pistons not getting a regular workout so corrosion setting in by the seals which would then weep onto the pads and rotors.  Not much can be done about the hygroscopic brake fluid, that's just a matter of time in the environment.  I think when they're in regular use like your brother's boat they tend to just wear normally.

[Cpy23ecl]

If the problems are a result of infrequent use I guess I'll end up with the same problems as I only use the trailer in the spring to launch and then in the fall to haul out.  And in the fall I don't even get the trailer wet as I have a boat yard pull  the boat with their lift, pressure wash, and set the boat on the trailer. 

I started doing this after the first year with the 23 because it was so difficult to get the darn thing centered on the trailer.  It took two of us 6 tries before it was close enough to being centered that I didn't feel like trying again.

I'll probably still haul out this way with the eclipse so I can get the centerboard well and centerboard power washed before storing for the winter.

Fred

[Bob23]

I guess I'm spoiled Fred. I've never gotten the wheels on my trailer wet at all! Each spring my marina lifts my 1985 23 from her next and gently places her in the water. Same thing in reverse in the fall!
Bob23

[Cpy23ecl]

Having the marina do it definitely makes haul out a lot easier.  I'm lucky to have a really good ramp so launch is very quick and easy and I barely get the truck wheels wet.

Between getting older and lazier I'm more than happy to pay the marina to haul, pressure wash, and set the boat on the trailer.  Sure beats getting all wet and messy at the car wash to clean the hull after hauling it out.

Fred

[Bob23]

I couldn't agree more Fred! My marina is the best, the really go out of the way to accommodate me. In the spring, they'll hang the boat in the slings while I touch up the bottom paint under the keel and where the trailer pads were. I usually work around their schedule and they appreciate that. It's a great partnership! My trailer has never seen the water and never will as long as I own it.
Bob23