WTB DC electrical Panel

[H2operator]

Looking for an electrical panel for my 23 renovation.

[Mas]

Looking for an electrical panel for my 23 renovation.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xtfxq40jvl9esw9/AADHttjwMACdw5Voo2NYBoLVa?oref=e&preview=CP+23+2018.pdf

should take you to the right spot, if not go to the Hutchins website and reference the parts lists.

[slode]

After breaking a fuse holder on mine I found an identical panel on Amazon for $21.00

https://www.amazon.com/Five-Oceans-Marine-Switch-FO-67-1/dp/B06X91PZD9/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1537894403&sr=8-15&keywords=12v+marine+switch+fuse+panel

Not sure if the 23 is the same but this is a good option for a traditional looking switch/fuse panel.

[H2operator]

Thanks for he reply, The Hutchins list doesn't specify the manufacturer of the stock panel. I'm curious what that is in case there's a deal out there somewhere. The Blue Seas gear is a little pricey and I'm not sure about the Sea Dog. The original panel from my boat was pretty crappy.
Thanks again, Lance

[moonlight]

You get what you pay for.
In full disclosure, I am both what Blue Sea advertises as a tech installer, as well as an ABYC certified Marine Electrician.
That aside, what I can assure is ... all boat fires self extinguish, at the waterline! 
Said another way, better to drink a cheaper beer, and have a more reliable electrical system; than vice versa and the worry that comes with it.

[brackish]

The $309 Compac panel is a lot more than just a DC fused switch panel.  It is a true breaker panel with 8 slots DC, 6 slots AC, an AC main, two battery test meter and switch light and polarity test.  On a 23 meant to go between the companionway steps, on the IV, might not work there on other models.  Also used for the 27

https://photos.app.goo.gl/srMW9GaM3WEP6tJG6

[moonlight]

It's quite possible, given the changes made as lessons have been learned, that the panel pictured by Brackish has been substantially modified; i do not know what the current offering is.

What i do know is that I specifically inquired about wiring to ABYC Standards when I ordered two new build ComPac 25's nearly 19 years ago.  ComPac does everything else first class, but 19 years ago the electrical systems left much much much to be desired.

Back to the photo, and the ABYC Standards; everything is fine as long as the AC portion of the panel is separatelyshielded from the DC when the panel is intially opened.  That is, it must be fit with another cover across the back making the live portions inaccessible without further disassembly which requires tools...

[brackish]

That is, it must be fit with another cover across the back making the live portions inaccessible without further disassembly which requires tools...

I can assure you it does not have a separate back cover on the AC side and if it did I would remove and discard it.  You cannot really work on this panel by removing it from the front.  The only practical way to work on it is to remove the cooler drawer which is under the lower companion way step.  lift the hinged step and slide in head first on your back on the deck to access the panel.  When you get there, there is a plywood drop board that is under the panel that has to be removed, thankfully, no tools required.  Then you can access the back of the panel which is nicely laid out. I've added breakers, re-purposed breakers, added a DC ground buss, and pulled a lot of new wire to this panel.

I believe that codes of all sort are generally good.  In my long history in construction, industrial safety and struggles with UL/CSA and OSHA, what I have learned for sure is that codes are often too general and while they offer protection for a statistically relevant part of the situations they cover, there are always those where adhering to the code will sometimes be impractical and in some cases dangerous.  I can site many examples from my own experience.  I'm a big believer in common sense.

[moonlight]

I agree.

The trouble is, common sense is anything but common these days.

Why did ABYC convert DC Negative/Ground from the oh so popular BLACK to the new YELLOW?  Well, you guessed it.  Too many weekend warriors got aboard ships or small craft that were wired both 120VAC and 12VDC.  BLACK, in the 120VAC world, you know to be line voltage i.e. the source of the 120VAC.  Imagine the interesting effects when folks misconstrued those wires to be 12VDC ground ... talk about stray current in a marina!  Like drinking from a fire hose!

I was in this business for years before I starting my round of certifications and testing; saw way way way too much stuff that would make your toes and your hair curl.  Like a fine sailboat back from the islands with a backwired and loop wired inverter.  Still can't figure out exactly how they did it, other than to assume they followed the point by point installation instructions and did the exact opposite of each point.  New owner was a smart kid, engineer even, but with no experience; three bilge pumps, two they didn't know about because they were a) inoperable, and b) deeper than the one that did work.  So when that one failed, hoo boy now we have fun.  Even the surveyor missed that.  When I got the call that "the" bilge pump was out, I advised before even boarding that boats of that genre and generation would typically have a 1) manual "gusher" pump, 2) a sipper, small volume low mounted pump for final dewatering, and 3) a larger, up top or high water pump that would only see action in extreme circumstances...

But I digress.  The rationale for separating AC & DC, remotely when able or physically when not, is to stop the weekend warriors who DON'T know better from killing themselves or others.  Kind of like motorcycle helmet laws in my opinion; we're legislating darwin out which makes it harder to cull the herd.  Sailors, by nature, are a bit more of the educated do-it-yourselfers, soloists; than say the SeaRay or jetski type.  But we lost a young sailor here a year or so ago; I don't know the full story but apparently he had done some wiring on his own boat, perhaps had mistaken AC Line w/ DC ground, perhaps the rudimentary discussion he'd overheard at the bar about bonding systems seemed like a good idea?  Again, I don't know the actual cause, but the effect was someone lost a hat overboard, in the slip.  He grabbed an aluminum boat hook, and the backstay for support, and reached for the hat.  Hook hit water, he died in front of his fiance and her mother.  Marina couldn't get the utility to turn power back on for two weeks...

[brackish]

Some good points.  Marina's tend to be loosely supervised , self service entities.  Keep a clamp on in your boat box.  Check your shore power cord. Check all your neighbors.  Only takes a minute to make sure those pesky electrons are leaving the boat on the other lane of the highway they entered it from and not taking a road less traveled. Not a perfect test, but a good start.

[moonlight]

Correct, with additional instructions.
Clamping the cord will only identify strays from others; what goes in & out on your cord should balance to zero.
But that is not the same as clamping the three, or four (on much larger vessels) individual wires.  White should carry equal amperage to black (+red if so equipped) but in the opposite direction.
Green should always carry ZERO current.

Better sensitivity check = create a 5-coil loop (of the same wire) and clamp the loop.  That increases the amperage  x5 thereby magnifies sensitivity of your amp clamp

[H2operator]

In my case I'm only wiring the boat for 12 volt, so far I've purchased a Blue Sea HD duel battery switch, a basic Blue Sea switch/breaker panel, a Blue Sea 12 volt receptical with USB/ digital voltage meter and a main breaker. I'll probably add post fuses to protect the main cable between the batteries and the the switch.
Belated thanks for the replies and input, Lance

[moonlight]

Lance, remember that the fuse or breaker is to protect the conductor, not the equipment.  Ampacity tables are available, as well as the Blue Seas Circuit Wizard, to help you ensure that you size the fuse to the wire downstream of it.  That way, the fuse (or breaker) blows (or trips) before the wire melts and starts a fire...
You can ALWAYS use assumptions and have smaller than required circuit protection; which then may or may not lend some protection to the equipment as well.  Rotating machinery (i.e. bilge pumps) should always be fused very closely; as their amperage spike when the rotor locks is insufficient to trip a breaker (too fast), then the residual locked rotor amperage (non-running) is lower, so it doesn't exceed ampacity but will overheat the pump housing (slowly).  So when manufacturer of that pump specifies a 3 or 7.5A fuse; they mean it...
But for the other stuff, say post fusing, yes you can set a 30A post fuse even if you're using 2ga wire to the panel.  The 2ga wire can take much more, but if you're not going to use it, you don't need a larger fuse...

[H2operator]

Thanks Moonlight, Full disclosure here, I'm pretty acquainted with wiring and even used to be the electrician for an aluminum jetboat builder here in Bryson City (New Zealand style river boats) although I was following the designers drawings most of the time. I did actually load the Blue Sea circuit wizard app on my phone.
One thing that I've only done a little research on is grounding for lightening strikes. My boat wasn't grounded or bonded which ever is appropriate in this case. I'm assuming that if you want to bond one of these boats since they don't have a metallic keel it's necessary to bolt a large bronze plate to the outside of the keel and bond it with a suitable sized conductor?  Lance             

[moonlight]

Lance, yes.  IF you wanted to break the insulation the hull provides, and make the mast a grounded lightning rod, certainly a ground plate would be in order.  And some very large cable.  Recall, the aluminum mast is a much better conductor than the stainless rigging.  As it sits, you're insulated, and by one of the many many lightning theories that abound, you may in fact be less likely to attract a strike in your ungrounded condition.  Ground it, bond it, you may be inviting the charge to concentrate...

Really, IMO, kegs and kegs of rum would be necessary to fully resolve the lightning conundrum.  Even then, we'd wind up with twice as many differing opinions as empty kegs, four times as many hangovers, and still a lightning conundrum.