cutlas bearing backing plate bolts

[BBTVR]

Almost ready to splash for the 2018 season when I discover the two bolts that hold the backing plate appear to be loose. I quickly discover that the bolts are gone most likely due to the previous owner having it at his private dock with numerous voltage leaks in the water. So, I assume the shaft must now get pulled in order to get to the backing late.  It is really tight back in that space. Any ideas? Thanks

[deisher6]

Hey BBTVR:  Wes posted a great how to do cutlass, prop shaft, shaft log at:

Re: 27 cutlass bearing replacement?
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2013, 12:14:27 PM »

You might want to look at restuffing the stuffing box while all the stuff is apart, as well as checking out the rubber hose and clamps.  The last time that I worked on this end I replaced a badly corroded shaft log.  I was not careful with the alignment and the shaft log was a different design than the original 1986 version, so I had to add shims to the engine mounts to align the shaft/engine.

Good luck and smooth Sailing.

regards charlie

[wes]

BBTVR - you don't absolutely have to pull the shaft and tube unless you are suspicious of corrosion or other problems. There is no backing plate; the two bolts and nuts bear directly on the fiberglass hull, which is quite thick in this area. With a 24" extension on your socket driver you can slip new bolts into the (tight) area between the shaft and hull, then put nylock nuts on the exterior and trim the bolts flush with the nuts using a hacksaw.

Note this is backwards from how the factory did it (bolts on the outside, nuts on the inside) but it's way easier than trying to fish those nuts down from the inside.

That being said, personally I'd pull the shaft and tube as described in my earlier post that Charlie mentioned. This will give you access to inspect everything, clean out the old sealant and re-bed with 5200. Good opportunity to replace the cutlass bearing while you're at it. Obviously this is a significant project - it will eat a weekend! You will have to either pull the prop or the coupling to get the shaft out. But when finished you can sleep easy for another 10 years or so.

Either way I'd prime the entire exterior with 2000e (2-3 coats) before applying antifouling paint. This will protect the stainless tube and bolts from galvanic corrosion caused by the copper in the paint.

Wes

[Allure2sail]

Hi:
Went though that a number of years back. Problems I had where that area acts as a trashbin for anything that you drop back there around the engine or transmittion. Only realized that after I looked back there with one of those cameras with a flexable cable camera. Used a coat hanger to pull it (junk) all out. Found nuts all deteriorated so the socket would not fit them any more. Ended up grinding off the head of the bottom bolt, with a 1/4" die grinder (top you can see the upper and get at it. Pushed the bolt back into the gully (no longer any good) and fished it out with the coat hanger. Super glued a nut a into the proper socket and feed it down under the shaft tube to the lower hole. Had someone wiggle the 1/4" extension around (from the engine compartment until I could see the threads of the nut from the outside. Used a small Phillips screw driver from the outside to make it line up with the hole and then had the other person push back on the extension to hold it in place. Inserted the bolt to catch the threads in the nut and then tightend it up. Not a very nice job. Used long 1/4" extensions to get under the shaft tube (Harbor Freight), the proper socket. All this can be done, but it takes two people, patience and some tools. 1/4" extensions (long !), a socket for the nut, small Phillips screwdriver, some thing to grind the head off the old lower bolt (so you can push it in and then get rid of it. Maybe one of those spy cameras, and A LOT Of PAITENTS !!!. It can be done, Top bolt you can see, makes it easier, but bottom bolt is a nightmare. I replaced both bolts and nuts because the nuts were pretty rusted away and not worth using over. Use 316 stainless nuts and bolts. Of course the boat was out of the water. The 1/4" extensions were the longest ones they carry (tight but they will fit (3/8"'s were to big in diameter.) This is not a job for the faint hearted. If you want to tlak about this job I'll send you my cell. Have a spare shaft log and bearing if you need pictures (cut all that out of a 27 Compac I scrapped a few years back.) Have a ton of spare parts which will go with the boat when I sell it this summer (had a stroke last year, and now land locked.)
Bruce
S/V Allure
Swansea, MA

[Allure2sail]

Hi:
Bruc again. Happen to stop by Harbor freight and it looks like they no longer sell those 1/4" extensions any more. you will have to fin the somewhere else. 3/8" are to fat in Diameter !!
Bruce
S/V Allure
Swansea, MA

[moonlight]

So timely!

I've pulled the shaft, tube/cutlass, etc. on my 25 because the packing was impossible to pack and get sealed.

Found the same thing, thru-bolted stern tube w/ corroded nuts on the inside.  Had to grind off the lower head, and cut the top with a sawzall. 

Now I'm wondering, why don't I just put this back with some 3M 4000, 4200, or even the dreaded 5200, and a couple of lag screws?  left to it's own, the nuts would have rotted away anyhow, and it's not like it's going to come clean off on it's own and get past the prop which is cinched down tight to a shaft that's cinched down tight to a coupler which won't fit through the hole and it's also cinched down tight to an engine that really really really wouldn't fit through the hole...

SO, why do you guys go back with thru bolts?  PITA?  Self-induced pressure sores?

[wes]

Moonlight - the problem isn't that the stern tube will fall off and get lost, it's that if this joint leaks water your boat can sink. I would not cut corners on anything below the waterline. I did not find the reassembly process (with the nuts on the outside) to be as difficult as Bruce did; the disassembly and cleanup was the hardest part. Whichever method you choose, you want to rebed the tube with a liberal amount of 5200 to guarantee a watertight joint.

Wes

[deisher6]

Hey:
Bruce, good to see you back up on the blog.  Hope that you are doing well.

I strongly second Wes on his comments.  It is too critical and high stressed joint to just glue.  I recommend 5200 and SS bolts.  Have taken apart this assembly twice and replaced parts to include shaft, shaft log, cutlass bearing, stuffing box, and well everything between the flywheel and prop, including the transmission.  It is not that hard to do.

Unlike Wes I hired a mechanic to realign the shaft and engine, they do it more often and it is much faster...worth it for me.

regards charlie

[Allure2sail]

Hi:
Wanted to mention I cut all of that out (Tube, shaft, cutlass bearing, and prop out and laying in my driveway. I can take a picture of what the inside looks like if you need it to visualize what looks like inside of that area of the hull.
Bruce
compact 27
Swansea, MA

[kevin27]

Did this job last year, some comments:

SS shaft looked fine until I pulled it, the underside had pitting that had perforated under the shaft log hose. I think it could have gone years like that without symptoms but I'm glad I found it and fixed. Hutchins made a beautiful new part. I think the old was Sch 40 and the new Sch 80 pipe.
Use the best solid hose clamps you can get on the shaft log hose, like AWAB solid.

A poor man's version of a locking socket extension is a bunch of wraps of electrical tape. SK sells a locking extension adapter that attaches to extensions you already have. It's easy to lose your socket at the bottom so that's where the tape or locking adapter comes in. If you make a nut a little bigger with masking tape, it will lock into a socket pretty well. SKT-40995 is the 1/4" SK adapter part for example. I buttered the area heavily with 5200 and saw later that the squeeze out was excellent around all holes on the inside.

It still wasn't easy, there was some salty language.

I had help but if working alone, the Stanley 85-610 locking adj wrench might jam well against the cutlass bearing shell and let you work alone.

Cutlass bearing install:

I chamfered the outside of the new bearing, and the inside of the shaft log in a lathe. You could do same lightly with a half oval file and the bearing spent a couple of days in the freezer. I made a press with 3/4" all thread from Home Depot and nuts that take a 1 1/8" wrench. One nut I drilled through the nut and rod and peened in a pin to lock in place. At the bearing end I made a bushing of 1" OD, 3/4" ID out of delrin to keep the press centered. The rest was just fender washers. I probably should have greased the washers and/or make thicker ones because they cupped and galled and maybe a lot of the effort was fighting that. But I was dripping sweat, with 16" long wrench in a 60F basement putting it together.

I find the idea that you could remove the bearing by working it out a bit and getting a vise grip on it hilarious. I think it would have to be slit lengthwise to have any chance of coming out or I would have to build a press to pull it out.

[BBTVR]

Thanks everyone for the advise.
Stainless steel all-thread also helps in getting threaded material inside and out so it can be bolted.
Cut off the excess outside.
sounds simple but not so much.
Good time for clean out also.