Midboom sheeting. Traveler advice.

[lweisman]

2nd year newbie here, having fun on Lake Champlain with my CP-16 (now that I've reattached the torn off mast step).  The PO rigged the boat for mid boom sheeting, hardware mounted on the cabin.  I bailed on that, mostly because you couldn't pull the boom in far enough on a close reach.   I instead installed a simple padeye on the step in front of the companionway for the mainsheet, leading up to a midboom attachment a little further aft.  This works really well but on a close reach I often find myself manually pulling the boom further into the wind, past midline, and cleating it off using the bitter end of the outhaul.   I haven't documented clearly increased upwind speed but it just feels better.  Otherwise, once the boom is pulled in fully it starts acting more like a boom vang.

So I've been debating whether it's worthwhile replacing the padeye with a small traveler track and car, to pull the boom across the boat better.  A 36" track would fit easily.  Do you sages of the sea think this is a good idea?  Or perhaps not likely to make much difference in performance, for the expense?  Is there a particular traveler system you would recommend? Some use a single raised horizontal bar I know.   
Thanks in advance.
Lee

[mattman]

Seems odd that you are going past midline with the boom unless your topping lift is preventing the proper leach tension. Also, if you are sheeting the jib outside the shrouds then you are probably going to luff the jib before you luff the main. A general prescription would be to  bring the boat to a close hauled position but not pinching, jib sheets should be inside the shrouds, sheet in the main (with topping lift totally eased) to midship, then ease out until the main luff is just being backwinded. Bring the main in just until the sail shapes again. Then adjust the leach tension with the vang so that the top batten is parallel to the boom. Then ease the main just to the edge of luffing then bring it back until it is just inside being backwinded by the jib. Adjust the vang to stall the top tell half the time, it should be flitting back then up, the other tells should stream aft. This is a general formula, ymmv, however if you have blown out sails you will have a hard time getting  the belly out of the main. Best of luck.

[kickingbug1]

   i have listened to matt for a few years now and have had the pleasure of his company aboard my boat. he knows his stuff. i dont always understand what the heck he is talking about but im learning. i even use my vang. inside yoke.

[ameysails]

lweisman
I followed the example of CP Legacy by putting the traveler across the aft pulpits.
Defender offers some SS tubing and slides that create the 'sliding' part of the traveler.
Then using two ratchet blocks, one at each end of this aft pulpit, and cam cleats on
the freeboard you can create a very efficient mainsail traveler. Should you need pictures/directions  of this construction contact me privately. Although I did place pictures about two weeks ago on the CP 16 DIY section of this great site. Since the boom is now controlled at its aft end, this provides the greatest 'swing' of the boom while still keeping it at the same 'down' tension

[Garyandjoanlee]

I have to say that when I first got my CP16 I thought the block at the end of the boom mainsheet set-up was very odd!  I would have designed it to be mid-boom like other boats I have sailed.  But THAT is why I have never been hired to design sailboats. After using the original system in a variety of wind conditions- it makes sense now. First, the 16 does not need anything else in the way in the middle of the cockpit. Second, with the mainsheet at the end of the boom, you can harden up better to point and my fear that it would take 3 miles of sheet to run was without merit. There is one change I made and love- I replaced the block on the boom with a cam-cleat fiddlehead block, upside down. It is now much easier to dump the mainsheet in a blow - especially from the starboard seat. Yes- I moved that simple block to the port quarter were the original cam cleat block was.

[Jasmid53]

Mattman states that "jib sheets should be inside the shrouds" the owner's manual shows in Fig. 11 that the sheets should be on the outside for a 16. I have read others saying they should be inside too. Why the contradiction? I'm a newbie too and when I first set up the rigging, I had the sheets inside and it didn't quite seem right. Checked the manual, moved them outside. Boat seems to sail well with no problems.

[lweisman]

Thanks! Much to think about.  Matt, we have been running jib sheets outside the shrouds with topping lift not eased, and will reroute them and then try your procedure (as best I can understand).  But we have no boom vang, just the downhaul and Cunningham.  Beyond a certain point, the mainsheet is pulling the boom down, more like a vang, rather than more inboard.  That's why I thought maybe I need a traveler, to at least bring the boom fully to midline.  I thought mainsheet travelers we're designed to allow the boom to be pulled past midline, and that it was a desirable attribute for sailing closehauled.  May well be my nautical ignorance showing through.
 

Perhaps I should just bail out on the midboom sheeting?  As it is I'm not using the installed hardware (either side of the cabin roof) as it seemed inadequate to pull the boom in far enough as I had it rigged.  I now use a cam cleat fiddlehead block hanging from the boom to padeye and block in front of the cabin and can reach by it into the cabin easily.  The PO argued that with an outboard motor and lift to deal with the stern mounted rigging could get in the way back there, which I think is probably somewhat true.   


I'll look for that posting ameysails

[AislinGirlII]

The PO argued that with an outboard motor and lift to deal with the stern mounted rigging could get in the way back there, which I think is probably somewhat true.   

...My CP23 has a stern mounted traveler with boom end sheeting, and an outboard, and an outboard lift, and stern rails...and yes, it is far too crowded back there..no place even left for a life ring on the stern rails...

I added cockpit remotes for the outboard because it is too hard to get to the outboard controls with all that back there..so now the crowding is encroaching into  the cockpit !!

[JBC]

I think experimenting is fun on a 16, a boat that suffers us fools pretty lightly. So, try things to see if they really improve sailing the boat (or maximize convenience, depending on the goal). I've sailed with end boom/mid boom sheeting systems on many boats...both work well, depending on the boat's design and purpose (e.g., a raked mast aft, then mid boom sheeting is wonderful).

One small item: if rolling up the main around the boom is the reefing scheme on the boat, and reefing sometimes is desirable, then I'd stick with the end boom arrangement.

Jett

[mattman]

On my 16 with new doyles, the best placement for the jib fairlead was one inch inside the the top edge of the cabin. I ran barber haulers to achieve this placement. At that point the main was not backwinded, and the boat is pointing the best that I could get out of her at 50 degrees off. When sailed on her feet with crew weight forward...the boat sailed at a little under 60 degrees off over the ground (though 12 degrees of leeway in bigger waves was not unusual). Just because the manual says sheets go outside does not mean that is the best placement for windward performance, but the best sheet lead placement will vary from sail to sail and point of sail. For the op, it is common to use the vang in lieu of a traveler on small boats with out them. The traveler addresses leach tension and is then eased out to address sheeting angle. So your thoughts are not inaccurate. The thing to watch for is that you will only drive as close to the wind as your jib will allow, it is unlikely that your main will be sheeted in that far on a 16. Generally for me, the end of the boom was not much inside the aft cleat (I did have a mainsheet setup like a laser on the back of my 16 allowing for some adjustment there as well) . Again, set the jib then bring in the main to just the point of not being backwinded in the luff but no further. Best of luck.

[ameysails]

lweisman
well here is some pics of our aft traveler using the original SS pulpits
• pulpits bolts reinforced to topside
• materials from Defender
• connected pulpits with a SS 7/8" tubing...SS cutting with a rotating cutter is best but takes some effort (hacksawing is ech!...lesson learned!)
• center slide for the mainsheet on aft end of boom with 3 to 1 block with cam
• a slide on each side of the mainsheet slide, with a connected line through a ratchet block (it can be turned off) which ends through camcleat just forward of the docking cleat
• pulling a traveler line moves the traveler to that side (ie. port line moves boom to the port) without the boom lifting
• without this traveler , easing the mainsheet to the port has the boom lifting, unless one can adjust a boom vang from the cockpit... of course moving ones posterior forward will affect helm as well (for us boom vang adjustments are tricky)
• since our boom is at a fixed height cuz it's fixed to the boom, we have a downhaul, but no cunningham. Changing the boom to a sliding one seemed beyond our desire and skill set and would have affected the mainsail design...not for us!

so there it is, it seems to work for us ole sailing types

removing the midship mainsheet has provided ease with kids aboard, the picnic person getting to the food/drink, and the wheaten terrier moving in/out of the cockpit without being scared by a moving rope in his nose

now your turn
whatever you do...keep it simple, think it through (where are forces resolving), take your time, and remember one can't eat/drink cash... food'drink work best!

I hope our master sailors can offer comments as well

enjoy your new adventure
murpheys
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