Curious what horsepower outboards you guys are using on your 23's? I have the opportunity to trade my really clean Honda 5 for a really clean Yamaha 8 with low hours. Thoughts please...overkill or better choice???
Mine is a 9.9hp. No real reason other than it came with the boat. The boat was used on Lake Erie.
I have the 8hp Tohatsu long shaft. I like it and it seems to be just perfect for my boat and the Chesapeake Bay tides. Get an outboard with a long shaft, that is the most important part.
A 5 hp two stroke on a CP-19 pushes the boat to slightly faster than the calculated hull speed.
Calculated hull speed for my barge is around 5.3 knots and the engine pushes 5.1~6.1 knots.
That's about what the sails do. So my sails are 5 hp? lol.
What is the calculated hull speed of a CP-twenty three? "Can't do better than that now can ya?"
As to shaft length ... This O/B is a short standard shaft configuration and to shove the O/B further into the water plus pull it off the transom far enough so the throttle/handle will clear the transom I modified my engine mount by installing 4 longer arms [saber saw cut from my old factory rudder plate] and four~two inch rubber blocks [saber saw cut from a big chunk of rubber] bolted on to a new aluminium saber sawed cut plate [also from the factory rudder] that lowers the phallic mounting board that the engine sits on down by two inches ... all that shoves everything down into the water and further out.
Craig Weis
I started with a Suzuki 9.9 HP four stroke electric start 20" shaft because it came with the boat. A good motor but not right for the boat. Too heavy! Hard to mount and dismount. Affected boat trim causing stern squat. I changed it out for a Nissan 6 HP four stroke Sail Pro with a 25" shaft. Just right! lost 45 lbs stuck out there on that moment arm mount and lost another 30 or so by losing the start battery.
I did the HP calc for the boat and it came out to be 5.6 required hp for hull speed. This, of course is a little variable with some speculation as to true operating displacement.
The change worked for me. That 9.9 has been converted to a 15 and it is powering a lightweight 14' epoxy composite skiff just fine.
I too have been thinking about upgrading to a 9.9, specifically one with electric start and power tilt. Not lazy, just getting older and engine tilting could be an issue in the future. I am concerned about the extra weight though. Interesting in hearing from others about their experiences.
I have an old 427 that I salvaged from my AC Cobra. Move over McGregor powersailer!
6 hp Tohatsu Sailpro. 4 stroke. extra long shaft. I like it and it moves the boat just fine.
Bob23
Hummmm...now I'm really confused lol. Just kidding. Sounds like I may be slightly underpowered with the 5 and a bit heavy with the 8. I've been in underpowered situations before fighting strong tides trying to get back on the inside and it's no fun. I'll give this s little more thought. Thanks for the input guys!
On a serious note, there is more to it than just horsepower. Case in point: My previous motor was a Nissan 2 cylinder 2 stroke long shaft (affectionaly named "Miss Nissan, size 8). It worked fine, pushing the boat well and I never used more than 1/3 throttle in normal conditions. It was nice having the extra power when needed. (I sail in tidal conditions).
My new motor, the Tohatsu SailPro (Sweet Sue) is a 6 hp, 4 stroke single cylinder and extra long shaft, 25". This actually pushes the boat faster, is more fuel efficient and although some users have reported ethanol related fuel problems, I've had none. In my most humble opinion, go with the extra long shaft whatever motor you choose.
The 427 was a bit much...but sure was fun passing the cigarette boats!
Bob23
So can't help ya with the OB on a 23 cuz ours had a diesel, 1gm10 Yanmar. Plenty of power and low in center of boat. could motor for 48 hours on the 11 gallon tank. Have a 4hp, 2 stroke Suzuki long shaft on our CP16 and at full throttle she is trying to move beyond her stern wave thus water begins to come in the scuppers a little. Plenty of power and starts on the first pull and is an 87. Heck I don't even start on the first pull!
A 23 is 3 times the displacement of a 16, with the same underbody just proportionally larger, also as far as the ethanol concerns, we always have plenty of non-ethanol locations near the boat. Most coastal locations do. Also i vote for a long shaft as well. Have used it in the up position in skinny water till can drop it down.
With all considered I think I'll sell the 5 and upgrade to a Tohatsu long shaft 6. I like Bob often sail in tidal conditions and listening to you with experiencee in this arena it sure seems that the 6 is the all around better power choice for the 23, not to mention that I've had my eye on the charging system of this little engine for a couple of years now. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
If you can get non ethanol gas in your area, by all means do it. I cannot here in NJ so I use premium fuel and have had no problems. While I have had no fuel related issues, I've heard that others have and it's attributed to ethanol in the gas. I've also been advised to change the gas monthly, another nice feature of the 4 strokes- I can dump it in my truck every month. I should utilize the charging system but I'm not sure how it would interfere with the solar charger that I already have.
Cheers!
Bob23
Fortunately over the last year one of our local gas stations began selling non ethanol gasoline. Before it was available, and still today with the non ethanol fule I use both Sta Bil, and Sea Foam fule treatments on all my small engines and haven't had any fule related problems yet that I can speak of. Bob the charging system on your engine will put out 60w/5a. That's one heck of an asset to have aboard if you stay out for extended periods of time. May I suggest installing a double pole single throw toggle switch in line of both the positive and negative leads of your solar system to give you the option to switch to solar as needed and to also protect the electronics of your solar equipment from possible current fluctuations.
" ... ethanol related fuel problems."
Not with British Petroleum Premium gasoline. No ethanol.
Or with aviation 100 LL gasoline.
Craig weis
Bob,
Just hook up the alternator output to your battery. It won't interfere with your solar at all. Your charge controller would prevent reverse current to the panel and the panel itself will also have a diode in it for the same reason. Otherwise your battery would discharge when the sun goes down.
I ran solar and alternator on Serenity for years with no issue and do the same on my Sabre but with more than double the solar power and twice as large an alternator.
Shawn
Quote from: Blown Away on November 13, 2016, 10:21:55 PM
Hummmm...now I'm really confused lol. Just kidding. Sounds like I may be slightly underpowered with the 5 and a bit heavy with the 8. I've been in underpowered situations before fighting strong tides trying to get back on the inside and it's no fun. I'll give this s little more thought. Thanks for the input guys!
What prop do you have on the 5hp? If it isn't a high thrust prop that alone would be a big change for you and could make a big difference.
On my 23 I went from a Johnson 8hp 2 stroke, 2 cylinder to the Sailpro. Drove the boat very well and had plenty of power. I ran it with a Racor fuel filter inline and never had fuel issues.
As far as the charging system keep in mind it is only putting out 6amps at WOT. At more typically cruising RPMs its output will be lower. Still it is very nice to have. Motoring at night you won't be on a power deficit from nav lighting for example.
Shawn
Quote from: Bristol14 on November 13, 2016, 10:40:46 AM
I too have been thinking about upgrading to a 9.9, specifically one with electric start and power tilt. Not lazy, just getting older and engine tilting could be an issue in the future. I am concerned about the extra weight though. Interesting in hearing from others about their experiences.
I have a 9.9hp electric start, power tilt and remote control Suzuki on my Sabre 28. Wonderful engine and those extras make it fantastic to use.
However, with electric start and power tilt you are looking at 110 pound outboard at least. To hang that much weight on a 23 you will want to make absolutely sure your transom plywood is in good shape and maybe still reinforce it more if it stays in a slip. If you plan on trailering it with the engine I would reinforce it. You will absolutely need to upgrade your motor mount and that much weight on the stern would seriously alter the trim on the 23. That much weight on the stern of a 7900 pound 28' Sabre altered my waterline and I had to add about 80#s to the anchor locker to offset it and I had the advantage of being able to mount the engine to the centerline of the transom.
It could be done on the 23 but not recommended.
Shawn
Shawn,
Good info to know! Sounds like you have experience in this area. Curious to know if diodes have amperage ratings, and if so what happens if the amperage output of a alternator exceed the amp ratings of the diods on the controller, and solar cell? Also would those amperage ratings be in line with the output ratings of the cell or exceed them?
Diodes do have amperage ratings (and voltage ratings) but the amp. rating doesn't apply in this case. Diodes are one way devices, they allow flow in one direction. Going from an alt. to a panel the diode will block all flow... as such there is no current (amps) passing through it. It doesn't matter if you have a 6a alt. or a 40 amp alt. No flow is still no current across the diode.
Where you could have a reverse flow is if you exceed the voltage rating, but diodes are typically rated at 500v or higher. An alt. isn't going to exceed that. About the only way to possibly have an issue is if you put a switch on the alternator and open/closed it while the engine was running. The collapse or creation of the field can cause a high voltage spike (think ignition coil) that might damage a diode but it will fail open and pass nothing in either direction. For an inboard user this is why it is a bad idea to switch off the main battery when the engine is running, it can damage the diodes in the voltage regulator in the alternator. Often diodes have additional diodes to shunt these sorts of spikes too.
Shawn
Thanks Shawn. I knew those diodes were there and acted like check valves but always thought they were probably rated at the same wattage/amperage output as the device and could get fried from a spike like the amperage output of an alternator. The possibility of damaging the device by switching it out of the circuit while the motor is running never crossed my mind. Bob I hope you are reading all of this, LISTEN TO SHAWN lol. Seriously I learned something new today, thanks for your input. Cool stuff!
Shawn says " If it isn't a high thrust prop that alone would be a big change. "
What is high thrust?
Does that mean push the most water with the least amount of rotations?
or
Spin the prop like crazy, just under cavitation, and move the most water possible?
What has to happen to make thrust? If it is an electric motor I think back to my years on an electric forklift with a 1,300 lb battery pac that is changed out every night and charged. Maximum shaft torque and hp and at ANY rpm above zero is available with electric motors. Not so with internal combustion engines that rely on climbing rpm's to make hp. Anyway as the rotar climbs out of zero rpm to max rpm the brass contacts on the speed control sizzle and burn and toss green copper sparks but cools down once the motor reaches the controlled rpm speed.
This is the same action that properly sized 'heaters' go through on number two motor contractors when starting three phase electric motors. These heaters glow red hot and go back to metal grey color once things are up and running. Full load starting, as it is, pulls the maximum amp's out of the battery pac at full load start.
Funny thing is I don't know what all that means but it is the reason why an automotive type automatic transmission changing engine or motor and shaft rpm's can never be used to drive a propeller in the water. No gear shifting. There was a story in YACHTING MAGAZINE explaining all this years ago but it went right over my head. I don't understand the science behind it.
Craig Weis.
The alternator on an outboard isn't really worth much if you have any electrical load on the boat. They type of cruising that I do I need better charging than that so I put a 100 watt solar panel on my bimini. It runs through a Genasun GV-10 charge controller. I keep my house bank, 230 amp hours, charged all the way up most of the time because of the solar. This is even if I sit at anchor for a few days.
I have considered going to the high thrust prop for my outboard. I have the 8hp with a regular prop.
Heave, I'll pick your solar brain at the CBMWG version 2.0.
Bob23
Quote from: Blown Away on November 16, 2016, 08:36:39 AM
I knew those diodes were there and acted like check valves but always thought they were probably rated at the same wattage/amperage output as the device and could get fried from a spike like the amperage output of an alternator.
The amperage rating probably is based somewhat on the output of the solar panel but that doesn't matter for reverse current. Another example... a 10w panel puts out less than an amp. But you can plug that into a fully charged deep cycle battery that can put out *hundreds* of amps and the diode is still fine.
Shawn
"Does that mean push the most water with the least amount of rotations?"
No, the opposite. Say an outboard has a 9" pitch prop.. the idea of that is it moves 9" of water each rotation assuming no losses. Something like the Sailpro has a 6" pitch prop as well as larger/fatter blades to grab onto the water more. My Suzuki is 4 blade 10" prop at 5" pitch.
"Maximum shaft torque and hp and at ANY rpm above zero is available with electric motors. "
Yup, electrics make max torque at 0 RPM. However, with no rotations on a prop you have no thrust to move a boat. EDIT: HP is *always* related to RPM so even an electric does not make max HP at 0RPM it makes no HP at 0RPM, just max torque. HP = (torque in ft/lbs x RPM) / 5252
"Not so with internal combustion engines that rely on climbing rpm's to make hp."
EDIT: internal combustion engines rely on climbing RPMs to make torque. HP always needs increasing RPM no matter what type of engine we are talking about.
This is part of why a high thrust prop can make a big difference. Say you have a 5hp engine.. it makes max hp at say 6000 RPM. If you have to high a pitch prop on it (on a slow moving hull) the engine may not be able to spin the prop above 3000 rpm. The engine might only be make 2 or 3 hp there and it won't drive the boat well. Put on a higher thrust prop (6" pitch) and now the engine will be able to rev up higher and make more power. End result is it will drive the boat better.
Best way to think of prop pitch is like gearing in a car. A higher thrust prop (lower prop pitch #) is like a lower gear, higher prop pitch # is like a higher gear.
A higher thrust prop will accelerate better (just like first gear) but on a planning boat (that isn't HP limited) it won't have as much top speed as a higher prop pitch (higher gear).
On a displacement boat top speed is limited by the boat. On a heavy boat that is harder to accelerate we want that lower gear to move the boat easier and to allow the engine to get into its power band.
"Funny thing is I don't know what all that means but it is the reason why an automotive type automatic transmission changing engine or motor and shaft rpm's can never be used to drive a propeller in the water. No gear shifting."
There is gearing but it is more like the final drive ratio in a car. I didn't see that article but I think it is basically that a multiple gear transmission isn't really needed. In a car you can't really get moving in 4 or 5th gear (at least not without roasting your clutch) but in a boat with a fluid connection you can get the prop spinning to at least start moving and then accelerate the boat.
Shawn
Quote from: HeaveToo on November 16, 2016, 09:55:39 AM
The alternator on an outboard isn't really worth much if you have any electrical load on the boat. They type of cruising that I do I need better charging than that so I put a 100 watt solar panel on my bimini. It runs through a Genasun GV-10 charge controller. I keep my house bank, 230 amp hours, charged all the way up most of the time because of the solar. This is even if I sit at anchor for a few days.
I have considered going to the high thrust prop for my outboard. I have the 8hp with a regular prop.
My Suzuki has a 12amp alternator which is pretty decent for a smaller outboard. That can be nice if motoring at night as it keeps everything topped up. But I totally agree about solar too, I have a 100w panel as well and that will keep me charged up and my fridge running all summer. Best thing to do is what the energy budget and get rid of incandescent lights as they use a ridiculous amount of power compared to LEDs.
Shawn
Last summer I did a 12 day trip. During that 12 days I never once plugged into shore power. A lot of those days were cloudy with rain.
On days that I sailed I ran a stereo all day, autopilot for hours at a time, lights in the cabin (LED) and the LED anchor light. I also ran the GPS, VHF with AIS, depth finder, and a few other instruments.
On a few days I didn't go anywhere because of weather. On those days I ran lights in the boat to read, anchor light at night, and I also plugged in my cigarette lighter sized inverter to charge my laptop.
I never got low on power. On some days I had a full battery in the afternoon and my total electrical budget was running off of the 100 watt solar panel.
Coming from a boat where I ran a lot of power and only charged through a 30amp alternator on the diesel, I think that my energy budget is about the same on the Compac since I never have had refrigeration (this is the biggest energy killer). I love the safety net of a large flexible solar panel.
I will say, if you can afford it and you want the best, go with a Soloban Panel. There have been recalls on my panel for causing fire. I would never leave my panel up for a long period if I wasn't around the boat because of the recalls. I should be fine with the way I use my panel but it is still something to consider.
If you are going with a 100 watt panel or less, go with the Genasun GV-10 controller. It is the best MPPT Charge controller on the market for smaller panels. MPPT is the way to go for charge controllers btw.
Here is the best source I have found for information on solar panels:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/solar_panel
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/solbian_solar_panel
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/solar_controller_testing
Quote from: Shawn on November 16, 2016, 06:34:15 PM
My Suzuki has a 12amp alternator which is pretty decent for a smaller outboard. That can be nice if motoring at night as it keeps everything topped up. But I totally agree about solar too, I have a 100w panel as well and that will keep me charged up and my fridge running all summer. Best thing to do is what the energy budget and get rid of incandescent lights as they use a ridiculous amount of power compared to LEDs.
Shawn
Wow!! Didn't realize a 100w panel was able to keep up with all mentioned. Im new to smaller boats and just haven't given solar much thought yet. Embarrassed too say that on my 32 I just start the engine and charge up. I actually have a fairly large panel in storage that's never been hooked up. What sort of battery banks are you guys charging with these 100w panels (types of batteries, amp hours, etc)? A world of knowledge here, so glad I joined this site!
Quote from: Shawn on November 15, 2016, 08:23:40 PM
What prop do you have on the 5hp? If it isn't a high thrust prop that alone would be a big change for you and could make a big difference.
On my 23 I went from a Johnson 8hp 2 stroke, 2 cylinder to the Sailpro. Drove the boat very well and had plenty of power. I ran it with a Racor fuel filter inline and never had fuel issues.
As far as the charging system keep in mind it is only putting out 6amps at WOT. At more typically cruising RPMs its output will be lower. Still it is very nice to have. Motoring at night you won't be on a power deficit from nav lighting for example.
Shawn
Shawn
I don't know yet what prop is on this engine. Just got finished rigging my trailer to pick up the boat a couple of states away, and will hopefully be heading out within the next week. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
Karl
I have two 6 volt GV2 Duracell batteries wired in a series to get 12 Volts. They are 215 amp hours.
One of the biggest power consumers is refrigeration on a boat. I have never had it because I always have access to ice where I cruise and get ice every few days. After refrigeration, I have heard that radar is a larger power consumer. Since I am not running those I think that my solar panel can more than catch up and keep up with what I run. I don't run my inverter much because I worry about the drain on the batteries.
yes, when I had my Catalina 30, I used the engine to charge stuff. That can be a mistake because you never get up to 100% while out cruising if you are charging that way. If you have an idle day and run solar there is a change that you can get the full charge if you get a good amount of sunlight.
It is all about how you cruise. Since my 23 does longer trips I need this. If you are sailing from a slip and do one night or two night trips and then go back to the dock to plug in or if you go into a transient slip every few days you don't need a large solar panel.
I have two group 24 batteries on a typical battery switch along with an echo charger between them. Solar charge controller goes to first battery directly. The controller also has low voltage disconnect which the bilge pump is wired to. All loads and alternator go through battery switch except for fridge which is wired to second battery directly.
Any time first battery is receiving charge (solar or alt) the echo charger will divert up to 10 amps to the second battery to charge it up. If the fringe happened to run down the battery 2 I still have the main battery for other loads or starting the engine. Of course it could also be pull started if needed. I may move to a bigger bank later on but this is working well so far and allows for mismatched batteries.
Shawn
I think the worst draw is really incandescent lighting. With cabin and nav lighting on I was pulling 5-6 amps. Led drastically reduced that to maybe a half amp with everything lit up. The dometic cf-25 is about 15 or 20 amp hours per day. The 100w panel can handle that. The 40w I had on my 23 could not but it was enough to keep it running for quite a few days of a group 27 battery.
I will be adding autopilot, chartplotter and an espar heater. With those and the fridge I will likely need more. I have another 100w panel that I can mount on the rear rail next to the first. My charge controller is 20 amp so it would handle it easily.
If I ever refrigerated the ice chest I would likely need more power too.
Shawn
Quote from: Shawn on November 17, 2016, 05:19:35 PM
I have two group 24 batteries on a typical battery switch along with an echo charger between them. Solar charge controller goes to first battery directly. The controller also has low voltage disconnect which the bilge pump is wired to. All loads and alternator go through battery switch except for fridge which is wired to second battery directly.
Any time first battery is receiving charge (solar or alt) the echo charger will divert up to 10 amps to the second battery to charge it up. If the fringe happened to run down the battery 2 I still have the main battery for other loads or starting the engine. Of course it could also be pull started if needed. I may move to a bigger bank later on but this is working well so far and allows for mismatched batteries.
Shawn
Quote from: Shawn on November 17, 2016, 05:30:12 PM
I think the worst draw is really incandescent lighting. With cabin and nav lighting on I was pulling 5-6 amps. Led drastically reduced that to maybe a half amp with everything lit up. The dometic cf-25 is about 15 or 20 amp hours per day. The 100w panel can handle that. The 40w I had on my 23 could not but it was enough to keep it running for quite a few days of a group 27 battery.
I will be adding autopilot, chartplotter and an espar heater. With those and the fridge I will likely need more. I have another 100w panel that I can mount on the rear rail next to the first. My charge controller is 20 amp so it would handle it easily.
If I ever refrigerated the ice chest I would likely need more power too.
Shawn
I totally agree incandescent lights are power pig's. Last year I installed all new led lighting on my little CP16. After tallying everything if I remember correctly I was under 0.25 amps with everything on at the same time. Believe it or not my battery bank consist of two little 12v 7.5Ah/20 deep cycle deer feeder batteries. I think both batteries and the charger combined cost less than 50 bucks. I haven't stayed out on her longer than one night so I can't honestly say that I have put this setup to the test. Is there some advantage to 6v batteries? I hear of more and more boaters switching to 6v systems so surely there has to be a reason.
Boats are still 12v systems, they just use 6v batteries in series to get to 12v.
I believe 6v deep cycle batteries tend to be a little cheaper as they are very common for golf carts and electric wheelchairs and such. They are also true deep cycles that can be discharged deeper (and potentially more cycles) without issue compared to dual duty 12v batteries.
The other thing that is a bit different is charging as they will be in series vs a paralleled bank of 12v batteries.
A series charging bank (two 6vs) will keep the batteries voltages more in sync with each other and will also prevent overcharging a weaker battery. On the flip side that overcharge prevention could prevent the other battery from being fully charged.
A bank in parallel (2 12v)has the potential to overcharge one of the batteries. The two batteries voltages can also get out of sync with each other easier duty to battery aging or potentially different resistances in the wiring. That is why most charge controllers have an equalization period that intentionally overcharges every so often to keep a series bank voltages the same.
That is sort of the idea behind my way of handling the (2) 12v batteries in my boat. Originally they were simply battery 1 and 2 and I used 1 for everything with 2 being a reserve. I added the echo charger so that battery 2 would always be properly charged when battery 1 was receiving a charge. After pulling the inboard (and not needing to be sure I had starting power available, though it is nice to have) I rewired the always on fridge to the second battery so I would be distributing the load over two different banks and to exercise the second battery.. The combination of the alternator and solar controller properly recharges battery 1. The echo charger makes sure battery 2 is properly charged. The nice thing about this is battery 1 and 2 are not in parallel so I can replace either if needed and they do not need to be the same capacity.
Eventually, I may make battery 1 a bank of two 6v batteries and move the fridge back to that. Then maybe make battery 2 a small motorcycle battery that is still charged by the Echo charger. That would just be a reserve for power tilt and electric start on the outboard.
Shawn
Quote from: Shawn on November 17, 2016, 07:27:49 PM
Boats are still 12v systems, they just use 6v batteries in series to get to 12v.
I believe 6v deep cycle batteries tend to be a little cheaper as they are very common for golf carts and electric wheelchairs and such. They are also true deep cycles that can be discharged deeper (and potentially more cycles) without issue compared to dual duty 12v batteries.
The other thing that is a bit different is charging as they will be in series vs a paralleled bank of 12v batteries.
A series charging bank (two 6vs) will keep the batteries voltages more in sync with each other and will also prevent overcharging a weaker battery. On the flip side that overcharge prevention could prevent the other battery from being fully charged.
A bank in parallel (2 12v)has the potential to overcharge one of the batteries. The two batteries voltages can also get out of sync with each other easier duty to battery aging or potentially different resistances in the wiring. That is why most charge controllers have an equalization period that intentionally overcharges every so often to keep a series bank voltages the same.
That is sort of the idea behind my way of handling the (2) 12v batteries in my boat. Originally they were simply battery 1 and 2 and I used 1 for everything with 2 being a reserve. I added the echo charger so that battery 2 would always be properly charged when battery 1 was receiving a charge. After pulling the inboard (and not needing to be sure I had starting power available, though it is nice to have) I rewired the always on fridge to the second battery so I would be distributing the load over two different banks and to exercise the second battery.. The combination of the alternator and solar controller properly recharges battery 1. The echo charger makes sure battery 2 is properly charged. The nice thing about this is battery 1 and 2 are not in parallel so I can replace either if needed and they do not need to be the same capacity.
Eventually, I may make battery 1 a bank of two 6v batteries and move the fridge back to that. Then maybe make battery 2 a small motorcycle battery that is still charged by the Echo charger. That would just be a reserve for power tilt and electric start on the outboard.
Shawn
Shawn
I think I have a couple of 12v condensing units laying around the warehouse that got pulled out on restoration projects thru the years. To my knowledge they were working at the time of removal. Anyway if you cover shipping you are more than welcome to one should you decide to refrigerate your ice chest. I'll dig around to locate them and double check the compressor windings. The only problem is that I'm pretty sure they are R12 units. Don't think I have any evaporators but I'll check.
Karl