Com-Pac Yacht Owners Association

Ladies and gents:
   A good friend of mine suffers from motion sickness. She used to not even be able to ride in the back of a car but that has improved over the years. In September of 2014, I took her out for the first sail of her life and she did fine. Last year we tried at least once but the dreaded sickness suddenly appears and it's the end of the sail. Same thing last Saturday although it was a bit rough. She's tried the bracelets, ginger chews (hates the taste) and has occasional success with Dramamine. Help is needed from the deep wealth of sailing wisdom that resides here at the site.
   I've done some research and found that ginger root may help. And I read on Earth Clinic that honey in cold water could help, too. I've never heard of that one before. I personally have had success with shots of Pepto Bismal but the taste and color would make anyone puke!
   So if any of you characters out there have had success conquering this demon, please get back to me. Hmmm...maybe it's my steering! I hope we can find a cure because she loves to sail. Just doesn't care for barfing all that much.
Thanks,
Bob23

I had an uncle that swore by getting drunk early and following through until returning to the dock. Sometimes he'd follow through until bedtime, just to be careful I guess.

Of course, no one could ever remember if he got sea sick before he invented his miracle cure so I can't really vouch for his method.

Hmm...interesting but I'm not sure it would work in our case. I'll try in on myself as a preventative measure. I've told my friend Kathy to eat before we sail. Sometimes she listens...sometimes she doesn't. I wonder what is the best breakfast to eat to lessen the chance of barfing. I've heard that proper hydration plays an important part.
Bob23

Bob,
I carry two things on my boat in case someone is prone to sea sickness.  The braclets work on about 2/3's of people, but they have to be positioned precisely to contact the median nerve.  Also, I think its important for the person to put the bracelets on as soon as they get on the boat, before you leave the dock.  I also have motioneaze:  http://motioneaze.com/motioneaze/motioneaze-questions/      I was at a boat show once at the motioneaze booth, and almost everyone walking by was saying how great it is.  Bought some and have had some good luck with it for people on my boat.
Rob

Ginger is a natural aid. Start consuming well before leaving...

Maybe it IS your steering?  Have her take the helm...it will make her concentrate on something else (particularly the horizon) instead of how the world is moving and how she's starting to feel queasy.  It also helps to face forwards and not aft.

Traditionally the only "cure" is to sit under an apple tree with your back against a brick wall - everything else is just suppressing the symptoms.  Some people find success with different suppressants (e.g. if Dramamine is not 100%, try Bonine, etc.), also avoid spicy foods (don't ask me how I know...think Indonesian food before a force 9 across the Adriatic) or large meals.

Jon

I'll second what Jon said and suggest putting her to work. I'm prone to motion sickness, but in rough conditions while at the helm navigating, my lunch stayed down while others waiting for their shift didn't have the same success.

I also find the return to land almost as painful, when my legs keep rolling, even though the earth is still.

Best of luck.

Medical therapies traditionally include Scopolamine patches, Dramamine, or Caffeine + Promethazine.  They all have some potential for side effects.  Scopolamine and Dramamine can cause sedation, blurred vision, mouth dryness, confusion and urinary retention.  Scopolamine is contraindicated with Close angle Glaucoma.    Promethazine can cause sedation, and dyskinesias (weird jerky movements).  But, in most the side effects are minimal, and some swear by these.  These are the standards.

The problem is believed to be the disconnect between the visual signals to the brain and the signals received from the vestibular inner ear.   The exact anatomic mechanisms are not well understood, but the vestibular response to head motion can decline over time (habituate), if a given motion pattern is presented repetitively. For this reason, physical therapy approaches that utilize recurrent head movements and associated visual cues can sometimes reduce the sensitivity to motion sickness in subjects who are particularly prone to this problem.  This may or may not reassure her that it does tend to get better, if she can get through it.  I've read that those that are stuck for some reason (e.g. in the middle of the ocean and cant escape) tell that the symptoms get better after a day or two at sea.  So, you might try many frequent (e.g. every day) small gentle trips then build up if that is an option.   There is a video kit for home therapy http://www.pumamethod.com/ that seems to have some success, but it costs money and I don't know how effective it is.

One therapy I've been wanting to investigate is just using an ear plug in your non-dominant ear.  Sounds easy and makes sense related to the believed mechanism of mixed signals your ears.  Basically, it mimics a cold where the brain may ignore signals.

It has at least a couple of testimonies:
http://www.spinsheet.com/an-easy-cure-for-seasickness/#.V2bQRZMrKL4
http://sundownersailsagain.com/ear-plug-trick-for-seasickness/

If she does try the earplug trick, I'd like to know if it works for her.

Larry

Ginger is a natural aide in preventing sea sickness.  The bands also help some people.

Watching the horizon is also good.  Having them take a turn at the helm will often assist a sea sick person.  It makes them watch the horizon and that helps.

Take it from someone that use to work on a charter boat on the Chesapeake Bay.  Never, NEVER, NEVER EVER let them go into the cabin.  That makes it so much more pronounced.

Here is a link for the all us nerds

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a472991.pdf

I get sea sick, here is what I do. When on other people's boats, I keep busy, try to steer if possible, stay in the breeze when I can, know that everyone gets sick and not be embarrassed, hydrate and eat. On my own boat I subscribe to the theory that my body believes that the reason that my vestibular system and my eyes are at odds is my body believing that I had ingested a neurotoxin (as in food poisoning) and hence the nausea. Therefore I ingest a neurotoxin that my body is well adjusted to which is some form of alcohol. My body recognizes this and says " oh ok, I can handle this with out puking" and the nausea does not develop as badly. It doesn't take much, just a few swallows will help. One does not have to get drunk...for those that feel the alcohol is a bad call due to impairment issues I would offer the insight that a seasick crewman going forward is much more likely to make a mistake than a crew member who has slowly sipped a half a beer over the period of a half hour or so.

Also as skipper if people are getting sick, try changing your heading a few degrees to change the motion of the boat, or alter speed a few tenths of knot. Just getting the exhaust out of the cockpit can make a huge difference. 

I would stick with the Dramamine - you can get a "less drowsy" version.  The Admiral used to have problems all the time; now she pops one little tablet 1/2 hour before we go out and she is fine.  This has been her experience on large sail and power boats on Lake Michigan and my smaller Horizon Cat on Illinois River and Charlotte Harbor.

Brandt-Daroff exercises were designed for benign positional vertigo and is usually very effective for that problem.  I have prescribed them for motion sickness as well and have had some success.  The idea is to clear particles out of the vestibular system and habituate the brain to the dizziness.  Sort of resetting the brain's threshold for dizziness.  Google them to get directions and diagrams.  I recommend a set of ten twice a day for a few days prior to the trip.

Gents:
   First, thanks so much for all the helpful responses. On her very first sail, I did indeed immediately give her the helm while motoring out of the marina figuring that it was better if she had something to do. Of course, I took advantage of the opportunity to take some great photos of her during her very first sail of her life! She did fine and once we raised sail, I again asked her to steer while I sat back to take in the sights.

   I'll pass all of this information on and indeed I already have forwarded some of it. She may try the motioneaze. And I may buy her some ginger root. When I was having some weird light headedness and nausea after a trip to Mexico, my daughter made me a concoction of ginger in water. It really worked great!

  I really hope we can conquer this because she loves to sail. Thanks again, mates!!!
Bob23

Bob,
Was at WM today, and they had Motioneaze on the shelf.
Rob

Yup. She found it at Wallyworld and Bass, too. It's pretty common around here. I'll pick some up. Thanks!

So.....did anything work?
Rob

My wife gets a bit motion sick at times, even in the car...especially while reading or watching streaming videos or whatnot while underway.  Fortunately, either I've been blessed with wobble-friendly genes by my Irish Aran Islands fisher folk forebears, or my checkered past of basically marinating myself in those neurotoxins someone mentioned earlier actually wound up doing me the power of good.  The sea could become a raging whirlygig and you'd hear not so much as a burp from yours truly.

I did grab a big pack of dramamine for the boat's first aid kit...for the wife or anyone else aboard who might be prone to turning green, but I just thought I'd toss this suggestion out there:




One also hears of ginger or ginger ale being curative for the old mal de mer (https://www.google.com/search?q=mal+de+mer&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwji8frL64zOAhWDbz4KHR-qCsIQ_AUICygE&biw=1152&bih=591), so subject to future exhaustive testing, I might provisionally propose liberal administration of the following cocktail, based on materials that should be on hand in any properly appointed vessel, to those prone to "feeding the fish" or, for that matter, to any witnesses thereto. Then, as one reads in the Norton N15CS motorcycle service manual, "Observe effect on performance":

The Woozy Wayfarer
Ingredients:

    1 1/2 oz Rum
    1 oz Sherry
    Juice of 1/2 Lime
    Ginger Ale

How-to:
Pour rum, sherry, and juice of lime over ice cubes. Fill with ginger ale, stir, and serve.  One may optionally add a dash of Angostura or Orange bitters or some sweet vermouth, if on hand, to taste or just to "brighten things up" in case it doesn't work as well as hoped.  Administer until the afflicted can be safely bungied to a stanchion or lashed to an out of the way lifeline for the duration of the voyage.  Somewhere easily hosed down would be best.

Quote from: Bilgemaster on July 24, 2016, 04:07:51 PM
My wife gets a bit motion sick at times, even in the car...especially while reading or watching streaming videos or whatnot while underway.  Fortunately, either I've been blessed with wobble-friendly genes by my Irish Aran Islands fisher folk forebears, or my checkered past of basically marinating myself in those neurotoxins someone mentioned earlier actually wound up doing me the power of good.  The sea could become a raging whirlygig and you'd hear not so much as a burp from yours truly.

I did grab a big pack of dramamine for the boat's first aid kit...for the wife or anyone else aboard who might be prone to turning green, but I just thought I'd toss this suggestion out there:

Dry Sherry.

According to Stuart Woods' book, Blue Water, Green Skipper (https://www.amazon.com/Water-Green-Skipper-Stuart-Woods/dp/0393032035), dry sherry is said to be the traditional British palliative for sea sickness...And Britannia rules the waves, right?

(https://www.sterlingcellars.com/images/sites/sterlingcellars/labels/t2646118ec_1.jpg)

One also hears of ginger or ginger ale being curative for the old mal de mer (https://www.google.com/search?q=mal+de+mer&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwji8frL64zOAhWDbz4KHR-qCsIQ_AUICygE&biw=1152&bih=591), so subject to future exhaustive testing, I might provisionally propose liberal administration of the following cocktail, based on materials that should be on hand in any properly appointed vessel, to those prone to "feeding the fish" or, for that matter, to any witnesses thereto. Then, as one reads in the Norton N15CS motorcycle service manual, "Observe effect on performance":

The Woozy Wayfarer
Ingredients:

    1 1/2 oz Rum
    1 oz Sherry
    Juice of 1/2 Lime
    Ginger Ale

How-to:
Pour rum, sherry, and juice of lime over ice cubes. Fill with ginger ale, stir, and serve.  One may optionally add a dash of Angostura or Orange bitters or some sweet vermouth, if on hand, to taste or just to "brighten things up" in case it doesn't work as well as hoped.  Administer until the afflicted can be safely bungied to a stanchion or lashed to an out of the way lifeline for the duration of the voyage.  Somewhere easily hosed down would be best.

That cocktail is similar to,  but more complex than, the Dark and Stormy, making me wonder if the origin of the D&S was an effort to address seasickness during a dark and stormy passage. Gosling's Black Seal Rum, Ginger Beer, and a wedge of lime. Besides, it's good!

Dark and Stormy are darn good. It was suggested to me by a former 27 owner here that Reeds and Maine Root ginger beer are superior to Gosslings. After much in depth investigation into this, I whole heartedly concur!
Bob23
I'll suggest the Woozy Wayfarer also.
Thanks all for the great suggestions.

Sorry, Bob23, your post didn't seem clear. Goslings is the Rum, you mentioned ginger beer. It takes both.

PS, I am new to the Dark & Stormy, but a big fan, and am open to learning alternatives.

Bruce

Yup. Gosslings Rum and I are old friends. But Gosslings also makes their own ginger beer. Reeds and Maine Root ginger beer are much better. I guess I wasn't very clear. I don't know what other ginger beers are out there. But whatever you choose, the rum must be Gosslings Black Seal. A few years ago some friends gave me a bottle of Gosslings rum. I noticed the label was a bit different but I failed to see the proof was 151!!! Yikes!!! Now that makes a killer D & S! I prefer the taste of the 80 proof over the 150.
On board my boat, I always keep a bottle of Gosslings rum. You never know when you'll get stranded on that desert island with Ginger or Maryann...gotta be prepared!!!

Okay, I am with you now. I have used several different ginger beers, including the Reed's.

A guy at my sailing club says he likes the kind you get in the mexican food aisle. I haven't tried it yet, because I still have a bit left of the Reed's.

Oh, and just about one drink left of the Gosling's. I better go back for more.

Thanks, Bob; haven't seen the Maine type of ginger beer yet, but I am open to it. I like the sugar free when I can get it. That way I can have more of them.

Bruce

I use the Ginger Root. During sailing season I take one everyday along with my regular dose of supplements. Then a couple extra when sailing, its also good for digestive health. Still want to stay out of the cabin if its rocking and rolling! :)

Bonine seems to be the best preventative, maybe have her try to take a dose at bedtime the night before and then again in a.m.  Stay away from caffeine, alcohol and eat lightly before, during and after trips, stay hydrated with H2O and also minimize time below decks if possible.  If you are cruising multiday going to sleep as it comes on can help if an option.  I spent a couple years in sail training and got sick from time to time myself, I would usually feel the knot in my stomach coming and then once I had "fed the fish" over the side I was good for the rest of the trip.  I saw hundreds of students and crew all try different things and everyone is different just a lousy feeling for those that suffer it.     

It only got passing mention above, but transdermal scopolomine patches can be very effective with minimal side effects for most users.  It delivers the anticholinergic drug, scopolomine, directly through skin into ones circulation, and is effective for many types of nausea, especially used for mal de mar.    It's OTC in Canada but Rx in US last I knew (Transderm Scop was the name brand).  And unlike pills or booze, the patch can be removed at any time to stop delivery of the medication.  (maybe run it by your family doc before trying, if you have any medical issues)

What gets me seasick (I'm quite prone) is focusing on some work or little project in the cockpit or on my lap, instead of looking out at sea and horizon (as others mentioned above).  I was kneeling in the cockpit last week on the mooring, installing a padeye on the step in front of the companionway. Already feeling a little ill I foolishly then bent fully into the cabin and looked up underneath to put the nuts on.  Big mistake for sure, I was immediately done for the day.

I'd like to try the suggestion of a small amount of alcohol, that sounds reasonable.  Also very intriguing, the suggestion of trying Hall/Pike exercises. It's a safe, easy 'treatment' for positional vertigo, by repositioning otoliths in the inner ear. Maybe work for mal de mar?.  The other major intoxicant which is widely prescribed (legally and otherwise) for nausea is THC/cannabis........
Lee, in VT