Hello all and thanks for so many great tips so far. I have seen photos of folks installing a rudder hold down bar is this for single handed sailing mainly? If so what are the advantages or need for it? Our boat has the factory rudder. Another suggestion was to install a nylon shear pin to keep the rudder down while sailing so as to also allow for it to kick up if an obstruction is hit any wisdom is appreciated...
I took Nomad, my 2007 SunCat to ComPac for some work this year, and had them install the rudder rod. It's great. No more bending over the transom to tighten the lever on the rudder, and it locks in the "all the way down and forward" position AND the "all the way up and out of the way" position.
No need for a rudder up haul, or down haul.
Great idea and it works flawlessly.
Ron
I also installed on my 1985 23/2 and love the way it keeps the rudder down and forward. It helps make weather helm more manageable. Mine has bent slightly due to a soft grounding or two...or three... but I plan to get a stiffener welded on by a local welding friend who specializes in stainless and aluminum.
Bob23
Ordered my hold down rod a couple years ago and added it to my 04 Sun Cat. At a little over a $100, some what expensive but I really like it. No more hanging upside down locking the rudder down and worrying about losing my glasses or hat. It works with a foiled rudder also. It makes a great addition to any boat in my opinion.
ROGER
The down rods are very handy. But for me, a back to basics and uhh cheap the $ .35 nylon bolt and nut acting as a shear pin trumps the down rod. I think it costs something like $85.00. I have never sheared the pin. But one time I ran into some mud and the pin held but it was partially cut I found out when I got back to haul out. I carry a half dozen pins...very cheap insurance.
Actually for me the best tool is a sounder to try and keep out of the muck in the first place. So far that has worked very well.
Tom L.
I have learned to take my hat and glasses off before locking down the rudder. So far so good. A great tip that I got on this forum is to insert a golf tee into the rudder and mount to keep the rudder firmly locked down. So far it has worked great! I have sheared a couple of tees but hey I have a bunch anyway.
Roger are you going to make it to the CLR this summer? I hope to see you there.
Second Wind
Chris
The sounder is a great idea and I'd have to say that aside from the compass, it's the most used instrument on the boat. The bracket is used to keep the rudder fully down when sailing. As a wood foiled rudder blade filled with foam, it likes to float back and up. When I do get into shallower water, I can release the bracket and allow the downhaul to keep the blade from popping all the way up. I wouldn't sail like this- with the blade canted back, the weather helm is multiplied. But when approaching an anchorage, I can keep the rudder draft the same as the keel. I like to anchor in about 3 feet of water when I can.
But the nylon pins work great too...and el cheapo is always nice!!!
Bob23
The hold down handle did not work very well on my 23. I had constant problems keeping the rudder down. Just normal sailing, not hitting anything, would cause it to pop up or slide off laterally. I was about to add a shear pin but studied the problem and then did this. Has been perfect ever since, will pop up if you hit something but will not come up by normal sailing.
http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=7267.0
Brack:
I realized that the lateral slide off problem was an issue. I had a stainless steel "loop" made with 2 holes which wraps around the bracket and prevents the slide off. To release it, I simply uncleat a small line used to hold it forward, slide it back and it releases. The loop also holds the bracket in place when not in use, preventing it from falling off backward or sideways.
Bob23
I'll see if I have pics.
I use the delrin pins I got from Ruddercraft. I couldn't see putzing with fixing the hold down rod when they act up like Brack's & Bob's did. I do tie a small line through the hole in one end, and that helps me not drop it into the drink.
I find that a threaded nylon pin with a wing-nut works great. I got a little off line heading out the channel the other day and dragged the rudder along the sandy bottom and it held just fine. It's a little bit of a reach to install and remove it, but that's all at the dock and very calm water.
Thanks all, I went with the threaded nylon bolt and wing nut and it is working great. I found an Ace hardware that had a variety of them. Home depot and Lowes didn't stock anymore in my area...
That's great. The Nylon bolt is very cost effective.
One other thing. Instead of a wing nut I simply screw on a nylock s.s. bolt just finger tite. It won't come undone but you can still take it off very easily. I started with a wing nut but it kept coming undone and they don't float. Who new.
Tom L.
I'm not at my boat to check; what size bolts did you get at the Ace? I think they look like 1/4 x 3 or so.
It was a 1/4"-20 nylon bolt. I think it was 3" long because that was the longest they have. It was good fit.
Tom L.
Cool; thanks! I have liked the delrins from Ruddercraft, but also like the ease of just picking up the bolts if I can get them at ACE.
Having owned a few Com-Pacs, I have struggled with the same nuisance. In my opinion, Brackish has the best solution. I tried the pin thing but once had the boat sailed into soft mud which placed too much tension on the pin to remove it, so the rudder couldn't be raised to free it from the mud. I would say yes to the raising bar for reasons of convenience, but would also recommend the bungee part of the Brackish solution at a minimum. My current boat, a 23 has the raising bar and I love the convenience of not having to lean over the transom to raise or lower. The hold down tab does tend to slip off the the standard design so a solution such as offered up by Brackish is good to have.
No offense folks, but what's the problem with leaning over and simply tightening the bracket handle. I find this adequately keeps the rudder in the down position. I make sure not to over tighten because I do want it to kick up if I grounded.
Bilge,
The problem for me, being of slight build, was that I was almost overboard before I could get the handle tightened. Put a hurtin' on my ribs and felt really insecure. When you run into shoal water the last thing you want to do is put yourself in a position where you are upside down and not looking where the bow is pointed.
Maybe it was easier for tall people with long arms?
Ron
I guess I am somewhat fortunate in that I am of the taller variety and arms as such may be long enough for this not to be an issue. So, to avoid leaning over the transom while in the water, I assume you stick the nylon bolt in with the rudder in the down position before backing the boat into the water? I have always been in the habit of locking my rudder up in the up position while backing down to prevent grounding on the ramp, but maybe the there is enough clearance that you can back down the ramp into the water with the rudder locked down?
Backing down ramp, I have sometimes had an issue. The best deal was on a Precision 21, where there was a BIG rudder, and I could bring it down with a pull rope, cleat it off. No bending over. I have wondered if I could rig that up on my Com-pac 23.
With me, I bend over the transom, put the delrin pin in, and then back up. I don't like the ruddercraft rudder to be horizontal, because I don't want to accidentally get it with the prop, which I have done, back in the day with my Suncat. I stopped that by putting one of those stainless steel things on that help you get more thrust. I can't think of the name of it, but it functions also as a barrier for the prop.
No Bilge,
I don't subscribe to the nylon bolt method. I had ComPac retrofit their factory stainless steel rod for raising and lowering the rudder from inside the cockpit. Works great. Stays down unless an obstruction is encountered, and easily pushes back to full lowered position when in deep enough water.
Got rid of lines for lowering or raising the rudder. Brilliant.
Ron
Sorry, I posted this query to the wrong thread yesterday. It belongs here.
I've been interested to read references to a hold-down bar on a SunCat with a Ruddercraft foiled rudder. My SunCat came with one of these rudders and I was considering a hold-down bar for two functions:
- I have never been able to raise the rudder fully by pulling the up haul line that's mounted on the tiller. I know there is a little dance that is recommended, but it doesn't work for me on this boat. I always have to make an awkward reach back to pull the rudder up the last of the way by hand.
-Also, it gets pretty weedy on some parts of our lake and in the mooring field, so the rudder often kicks up or gets stuck or has to be cleared of lake salad, so it has to get pushed back down now and then. The gas cylinder seems to do a good job of pushing the rudder gently down in clear water, but sometimes, especially when it's a little weedy, I need to push it down the last few inches by hand, which is even more awkward than pulling it up.
I could maybe solve the first problem with an extra uphaul line, but since, as they say, you can't push a rope, it doesn't help with the second issue.
So does Gerry sell a hold-down bar that can be added to the rudder, and would that work for this situation? Are there any images around showing that hold down bar in this application?
Thanks in advance for any advice. Dan
Modify message
Yes, Dan. They have the stainless rudder rod for your application. It works great, and is only $125 plus shipping. I went to the factory and they installed and adjusted it for my aluminum rudder for no additional cost. They have one (might be the same one) for the rudder craft rudder blade.
Ron
Hi Ron,
Do I understand your post correct, ComPac has a Rudder Hold Down Bar for the Ruddercraft rudder? Like this one:
https://ruddercraft.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=29&product_id=135 (https://ruddercraft.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=29&product_id=135)
Thanks
Dan
Quote from: cruz-in on September 26, 2016, 12:33:10 PM
Hi Ron,
Do I understand your post correct, ComPac has a Rudder Hold Down Bar for the Ruddercraft rudder? Like this one:
https://ruddercraft.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=29&product_id=135 (https://ruddercraft.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=29&product_id=135)
Thanks
Dan
Chatted with ComPac, they said in all likelihood their hold down bar will not work with the foil rudder.
I have a Ruddercraft rudder and Com-Pac hold down rod on my Suncat. To get the hold down rod to work with the foiled rudder you trim a little of the plastic away where the clevis mounts to the rudder, there is 3/8" aluminum under the plastic similar to the stock rudder to drill a hole and attach. This attachment point is above the water so it won't interfear with the rudders operation. I'm going on my second year with the hold down rod and think it is a great addition.
ROGER
Thanks Roger,
I believe I am missing some thing. When I look at installing the hold down bracket to the Ruddercraft rudder, I see your point about removing some of the white plastic to allow the bracket to pivot as you raise and lower the rudder.
However, due to the cut of the aluminum on the ruddercraft, the hold down bar is virtually straight up and down when the rudder is down. When I fit bar to my compac plate rudder (I still have it), the bar runs more at an angle. The reason I mention this is, I see how the bar will allow the compact plate rudder to kick up when the rudder strikes an object. However, with the vertical install on the ruddercraft rudder, I do not see how the hold down bar will release and allow the rudder to rise in the event of striking an object or grounding.
Also, How do you keep your ruddercraft rudder up when using the hold down bar? Do you still have to lean over the back and tighten the rudder nut to keep it in the up position?
Thanks tons for the response and sorry for all the questions.
Dan