Hi everyone! I'm new to the forums but I've been a reader for a while. I'm considering buying a Compac 16 on Craigslist, but the launching & retrieving at the boat ramp has me concerned.
I have a 2005 Pontiac Grand Prix GT 3.8L V6 automatic transmission that has a listed max towing capacity of 1,000 lbs. The Compac 16 w/ trailer is ~1,500 lbs. I would like to make this work without buying a new car, but I also don't want the car to get pulled into the water at the boat ramp. I live in St. Pete, FL and there's a boat ramp ~3 miles away. Towing on flat to get there, but the incline at the boat ramp scares me.
Anyone out there tow and launch a Compac 16 with a car? Any advice for me before I make the "plunge?"
If I try launching the boat with the Grand Prix, any good precautions I could take to make sure the car doesn't get pulled back into the water? Wheel chocks, etc? Thank you!
"Keep windows down and wear a pfd in the car............" (Sorry, I'm bad)
1. Incline of the ramp and how slick the ramp will be might be bigger factors. You have those things called tides that we flatlanders don't contend with. So I'm guessing your ramps stay wetter longer and might be slicker.
2. Most people also put a lot of glop in their boats, so by the time you add a motor, coolers, food, case of adult beverages, now your ~1500# trailer tilts at around ~2000#.
It scares me a lot to tow above the rated limits, but everyone has a different pucker factor.
Best wishes,
Ron
Its possible you may be extending your liability by towing out of rating in more way than one. You can't go wrong with a C-16.
I tow my C-16 with a V-6 Chevy Blazer 2 wheel drive no issues but has the tow rating.
Towed my 16 with a 1989 Chevy z24 2.8l v-6 with auto when i first got her. Car had no problem pulling it. I would guess the low towing capacity is due to the transmission being the weak link in your case. I would think 3 miles would not be a problem in my opinion. Might have some wheel spin on a slippery ramp. A tongue extension may help keep you dry. Good luck.
I'm in a similar situation: my car has a listed towing capacity of 1000 pounds, and I own a CP-16. I did some research on towing loads to see if I'm comfortable with the situation, and here's my take away, YMMV.
In general the US listed towing capacities are lower than other countries (European) for the same car. This was supposedly due to limiting liability in lawsuits... just because you can tow the heavier weight doesn't mean that it's as safe at all conditions, where US litigation may make that interpretation. Listed towing capacity factors in being able to travel across the country, climbing mountains in the west, and long drives on our great interstate situation. For my local towing, I'm okay marginally exceeding the towing capacity.
When cars/trucks have upgraded towing capacity, the main difference is typically upgrading the oil cooler, so when the engine runs stronger the higher capacity oil cooler keeps the motor from overheating. Again, my boat is in a flat area, where I'm not climbing mountains or going far or fast that will really tax the engine for an extended amount of time. I never saw upgraded transmission or struts or shocks or frame, but the engine oil cooler that was key to increased towing capacity (or the actual towing attachment mechanism onto the car).
Car motors are designed to handle short term higher loads (e.g. accelerating onto a highway) different from the long-term steady heavy loads. It's a relatively short time your engine is working hard on the launch ramp, unless you have a very, very, very long ramp (e.g. the tide is really, really, really, really low, like tsunami level low times a thousand).
A google search of "weight 2005 Pontiac Grand Prix GT" shows your car weighs 3,484 pounds and has 1,000 pounds of towing capacity (thanks Google!). Comparing a Ford Ranger (google "weight of 2005 ford ranger") has a weight of 3,028 to 3,606 pounds, and a towing capacity of 1,600 - 3,220 pounds. Based on this weight comparison, I wouldn't worry about your car being pulled into the water, unless someone really oiled up the area trying to play a prank. The comparison weight isn't much different than your car.
I won't say that you'll be fine (I don't want to be liable), but will share that I have no concerns in a similar situation. If you do extended travels or get a heavier boat, you might want to think about a different vehicle. Again, your mileage may vary (and my mileage dropped from the normal summer ~34 mpg to somewhere in the high 20's when towing my boat about 40 miles home one day).
TMW,
I think the other variable on tow capacity is radiator capacity. My daughter had a V8 Aviator (Lincoln Explorer if you will). It was a 5L motor IIRC. Tow capacity was not very much--not nearly what a similar explorer with smaller motor was. A ford dealer told me it was due to cooling capacity--the larger motor needed a larger radiator just to keep the motor cool, not allowing for much extra if you towed.
Sounded logical to me anyway.
Ron
Let's remember that eoin is only towing 3 miles. The engine will just be approaching normal operating temperatures in 3 miles. I say, go for it! But maybe you could have a friend there with another vehicle and tow chain. Hook 'em together first just in case you need help getting up the ramp. If you don't then fine...all your fears will be history and all will be well. Buy the boat. you will not regret it. If you fall in love with the boat (and you will!) you'll figure out a way to launch it.
Bob23
My guess is the low tow rating is due to the unibody frame not being designed for a heavy hitch rating. The motor/transmission should handle it, but if you plan to do a lot of towing further than 3 miles, a transmission cooler would be good to add.
I towed a 16 one time with a BMW 3-series (doesn't have a tow rating in the US, I think the hitch was rated for 1,500 or 2,000 lbs) on a 100 mile freeway trip. The aftermarket hitch that I installed just bolted through the sheet metal for the trunk with large backing plates inside. So my biggest fear was the hitch ripping right off the car. But after the trip there was no sign of the sheet metal bending, flexing, or distorting. I ended up buying a $1,200 jeep grand cherokee to serve as a tow vehicle, but with the short distance you are looking at, your car will get it there and home just fine. I have no idea what it will be like launching and retrieving. And yes, by the time you add the boat, motor, gear, and the weight of the trailer, you're probably towing 1,500-2,000 pounds.
Bob 23 has it right. A 3 mile trip is not going to be a problem.
Bob Burgess, in his book titled Trailer Sailor shows his C-16, Nomad, being pulled by a 1973 Ford Pinto.
Your Pontiac is far more capable than his Pinto.
Tongue weight will be less than 200 lbs. That isn't going to hurt anything.
Pacman got it right! Get the C16 and have some fun. Make two trips if you are going to load the boat down with camping gear for a week. For a long trip rent a pickup from U-Haul.
Thanks guys for your replies. It's definitely good to hear some experiences towing a Compac 16 with a smaller car.
Since my Grand Prix is an automatic, would it be best to tow the boat in regular "Drive" or shift it into 3rd gear, etc? On the ramp, best to be in 1st gear? Thanks!
Pretty sure you could pull it with a four cylinder engine! Make sure you've got a good transmission. The important thing is not to get your rear tires in the water. I live in the Mid-West, and the algae growth on the cement ramps are a major problem. I've seen a few four wheel drive trucks and a few camper slide into the deep water. Those ramps are slicker than owl snot! Bottom line. keep your back tires on the dry cement dry. Hey it's negative four degrees Fahrenheit today. But just a hundred day to sailing season! Six cylinder engine no issues pulling a 16 across the country. You will soon have launching and retrieving your yacht down to a science! Hey that's my two cents worth! Best Regards Tim
Pretty sure you could pull it with a four cylinder engine! Make sure you've got a good transmission. The important thing is not to get your rear tires in the water. I live in the Mid-West, and the algae growth on the cement ramps are a major problem. I've seen a few four wheel drive trucks and a few camper slide into the deep water. Those ramps are slicker than owl snot! Bottom line. keep your back tires on the dry cement dry. Hey it's negative four degrees Fahrenheit today. But just a hundred day to sailing season! Six cylinder engine no issues pulling a 16 across the country. You will soon have launching and retrieving your yacht down to a science! Hey that's my two cents worth! Best Regards Tim
Can't help with the tow vehicle, but I used to live in St Pete and launch my Cp16 at Demans landing , a ramp at the municipal
Marina. There are two concrete ramps with a dock in the middle. As I remember the texture of the concrete was roughed up when
poured, no problem with traction. When launching the 16 back the trailer until the fender tops are under water , then the boat
should just push off. ( This depends on the tide too.) Your car's back tires may just touch the water, make sure trans is in Park and set emergency brake.
The trailer bearings are under water so you should have bearing buddies to keep the water out. That ramp is nicely protected from cross winds, and it is a short motor into the bay.
Drive will pull the boat out, it will be in first anyway, just nice and slow, and wherever you launch after stepping mast on trailer driving to the ramp. Watch Out For Power Lines.
Mike
Mike
Given the short towing distance, it probably doesn't matter if you are in drive (3rd) or overdrive, but drive is safer for the transmission. It won't matter what gear you put it in for pulling out. It will always start in first gear (unless you have a 2nd-gear start button), whether you have it on "1" or "D".
Why not try it in reverse? hahahahaha. Seriously, I don't think it's a big load or long enough distance to worry about. When I tow my 23 with my 2001 Tundra 4.7 liter V8, I turn off the overdrive just because I can. But if I go over 60 or down a hill, I turn in back on. We are talking 2 very different vehicles here but you are only going 3 miles. You'll be fine.
Bob23
Riggerjohn mentioned wheel spin on a slippery ramp, and if I'm correct the Pontiac in question has FWD. With the boat/trailer attached to the car on the ramp, the front tires might lose some of their normal grip with the additional weight on the rear bumper, especially when pulling the rig out of the water. Might do well to carry a bit of extra traction material for slick ramps. Cat litter works pretty well on snow and ice sometimes.
Jett
Quote from: JBC on January 11, 2016, 08:28:55 PM
Might do well to carry a bit of extra traction material for slick ramps. Cat litter works pretty well on snow and ice sometimes.
Jett
Kitty litter sounds like a good idea.
You could also have a friend sit on the front fender to increase traction on a FWD car.
Most kitty litter is made from a mud like material. Might be OK in snow but on a boat ramp. if if gets wet, it will be slippery. Sand would be a better option.
Front wheel drive vehicles do have an issue at ramps. Upon acceleration the whole car shifts more weight to the rear wheels and less to the front plus the extra tongue weight from the trailer. Just watch a car accelerate. Even a front wheel drive car, the front raises up while the rear squats down.
Having said that this size car should have no issue with a 16. IMOP. Try it on a steep section of roadway or someones driveway if your worried about the cars ability to haul up a ramp.
Tom L.
I agree, most sub compact cars have more than enough power to haul a 16 out of the water as long as they have good traction. What may be of equal importance is having a good park brake to assist holding the unit solid on the slope. I have had some close calls with one of my older cars in that regard. It is a good idea to check and adjust the park brake from time to time.
Al
i had a 2008 chevy impala with 3.5 v6--211 hp. i bought a receiver hitch for it which bolted to the subframe with four big bolts and two large bolts into the bumper support beam. it was pretty stout---plenty when pulling a 16. definitely pull in third gear. that 3.8 is a great engine, one of the best gm ever built but you are talking about a front drive transaxle, which would be the weak link. plus the cv joints are not really engineered for heavy duty work. all that being said i would still say that you are safe to tow. take it easy on the ramp and if you can pick one that isnt already wet and by all means take your time coming to a stop. give yourself lots of room. the 16 is a breeze to tow. i would figure the whole rig is still under 2000lbs easy. if you are in doubt about the weight you should be able to take it to a concrete company or grain elevator and have it weighed.
Hi Eoin,
I live in Brooksville, Fl and I had the same concern about slippery ramps. I made a removable launching extension for my trailer that is about 7 feet long. It keeps my towing vehicle tires completely clear of the slimy part of the ramp. Send me your e-mail address and I'll send you photos of it. Also check out the West Coast Trailer Sailor Squadron on the web (WCTSS). We have several Compact 16s in the group. My 16 is currently for sale as I found a Bay Hen 21 (better for two people to cruise in) . I love the unstayed mast and the gaff-cat rig.
/// Frank ///