Ok, just found out that the winter cover that came with our boat and been stored so that dry rot had occurred and so, to cover or not cover is now the question?
Location, lower Chesapeake Bay, probably will haul every winter so on trailer. hope to leave rigged. Not a lot of snow but we do get it as well as ice sometimes. Goes away pretty quickly.
Putting on a cover certainly has it's advantages but it also can trap moisture, attract birds, etc. It means the solar powered foredeck ventilator would no longer work. It could make any work on the boat in the off-season a bit more cumbersome. It does protect the topsides from sun, but not so bad in winter. It would help keep it cleaner? Trying to make lemonade outta lemons right now since I thought the cover that came with her was fine, till i pulled it out of it's multiple plastic bags. Shoulda paid better attention because a full canvas cover was a selling point for me. Now that I can start over with decisions maybe some folks here can help guide my thinking.
Knowing where she is to be keep and that she will be out of the water preferably mast up rigged with sails and bimini cloth removed for the winter:
1. are covers worthwhile or no
2. does it make sense to get a mast up cover (seems to as you could conceivably use it mast up or down.)
3. what general costs are involved with a custom canvas cover. (know what Katrina tarps cost!)
4. recommendations on any particular covers/material. (not fond of non-breathable covers) That why the canvas cover dry rotted, it was stored in plastic in a humid environment
5. approximate life span for good cover
Well guess that covers it! (pun intended)
This cover came with Serenity when I bought her...
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2435/3618505202_69bf5eb4e0_z.jpg?zz=1)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4055/4399711542_cbd2e31b3f_z.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4068/4398947925_492aa3466f_z.jpg)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2703/4398946125_0e018b9355_z.jpg)
It was a *very* nice cover but somewhat difficult to put on/off as that giant roll of canvas was heavy trying to get it rolled outside of the framing. Breathed well so moisture wasn't a problem. If the strapping wasn't done well chafe could be a little bit of an issue. Biggest problem was wasp nests in early spring. PO told me he paid about $2000 for the cover and that was about 15 years ago.
After I installed the wood stove in Serenity I stopped using that cover. My kids liked to "hang out" in Serenity with me over the winter. Having the wood stove going and running the interior lighting (from a 9v battery) we would just spend time in Serenity reading while she was sitting on her trailer. Helped make the winters a little more bearable. Was also great when I was working on something inside during the off season as I could heat her right up.
Shawn
Thanks Shawn. It also looks like your boat lives next to your home in the off-season. We live on a small farm 2 1/2 hours from our boat. I have zero intention of hauling here every winter, thus my intent to leave mast up and rigged minus all cloth and on trailer at our little marina. Free winter storage! A mast down cover had to be the choice for a boat that is hauled beyond it's immediate water home. That cover sure is impressive, would make a good summer platform tent!
I agree about the added inconvenience of removing or accessing the boat with cover on, but also in our case we will not be going to the boat much in the winter (we spend much time on the frozen stuff up here in our mountains). So getting in and out regularly is less of a concern but still is one.
Kinda thinking if cover at all, breathable, mast up, relatively easy access?
OBTW, it is kinda fun just sitting in a boat even if on the hard isn't it?!
oh forgot to ask, assume that cover went to the new owner?
Nice Cover
I don't cover Saga for the winter. I thought about building my own sunbrella cover but that would be VERY expensive. If you figure that Sunbrella is about $30 a yard (60") piece and you would need 15-20 yards, depending on measurements. That is doing the cover yourself.
If you think about this then I would say that it is a pretty good project to learn to do some basic sewing on. It is a good excuse to buy a machine and start sewing stuff.
A good resource for canvas work stuff is:
www.sailrite.com
So HeaveToo, looks Celtic but know it's not any Celtic i know, maybe Nordic something? got me!
Døyr fe, døyr frender
Døyr sjølv det sama
men ordet om deg aldreg døyr
vinn du et gjetord gjevt
so whats the translation, well as much as it can be. Have been wondering.
No Mas
Quote from Håvamål -- The High Ones Speech, Poetic Edda
Døyr fe, døyr frender——————————————-Cattle die, kinsmen die
Døyr sjølv det sama——————————————--You yourself will also die
men ordet om deg aldreg døyr——————————but the word about you will never die
vinn du et gjetord gjevt—————————————--if you win a good reputation
It is Norse. Fitting for the boat name and I have some Scandinavian ancestry.
I have a very similar cover to Shawns but with wood and pvc pipe frame and a custom made and very heavy oiled canvas cover which gives me standing headroom in the cockpit. I use an old mast for a ridge pole and run some string lights inside to give good lighting. Keeps the rain, snow, birds and whatever doesnt' belong there out. I paid about 700 clams for the cover and built the framework myself. The framework probably cost less then 100 clams. It takes about a half of a day to assemble the frame and install the cover. Once it's done, I never think about protection from the elements.
These Fisher Canvas covers are famous in my area of southern NJ and I've seen them last 20 years with proper summer storage. Fred Fisher is a pleasure to work with and designed this cover so it cost's about half of a true fitted cover.
Bob23
http://www.fishercanvas.com/#
Has anyone used a mast up cover? If designed right it would seem to be able to be used mast up or down. Sure would love to keep her rigged since we store on the trailer at the little marina where she will have slip.
Heave, last time I bought Sunbrella from Defender it was about $18/yd X 60". Might want shop around a bit. Sailrite is fairly pricey, IMO.
There are less expensive alternatives. Check out seatlefabrics.com too.
NoMas:
I saw a cover advertised in Good Old Boat magazine some time ago. Twas a fitted cover designed for mast up. It seemed to be geared toward bigger boats than ours but maybe they can be designef for our little yachts too. I think it was around 1200 clams. Maybe do a search on GOB website. I do not subscribe anymore.
Bob23
Thanks Bob. Winter is a dangerous time for us boat owners isn't it? Too much time spent thinking about things for the boat since they can't be sailed.
Anyone have a mast up cover on their 23"s. Love to hear your feedback on such.
If you figure that Sunbrella is about $30 a yard (60") piece and you would need 15-20 yards
$19.75 per yard at Sailmakers Supply, Gautier, MS. They sell online, but I usually pick up since I'm down there regularly. 5% discount at ten yards, 10% at thirty yards. Any good heavy duty machine will sew the stuff, you don't really need one of those expensive sailmakers machines.
Thanks for the tip Brackish. That is a good price.
I bet the Compac Owners down south are laughing at us talking about Winter Covers.
Quote from: HeaveToo on December 05, 2015, 02:51:00 PM
Thanks for the tip Brackish. That is a good price.
I bet the Compac Owners down south are laughing at us talking about Winter Covers.
I had to see a picture to know what that was.:) Quite a few folks at my marina put covers on but it is primarily to keep the pine pollen, algae and bird droppings from taking over the boat.
" I thought about building my own sunbrella cover but that would be VERY expensive. If you figure that Sunbrella is about $30 a yard (60") piece and you would need 15-20 yards, depending on measurements. "
I'm going to trying building a DIY cover for my Sabre. Wouldn't do it with Sunbrella though, way to expensive for my almost non-existant sewing skills. Most covers are either some type of cotton duck canvas or a lighter weight material.
Dupont makes a marine version of Tyvek that is intended for covers. A seller on ebay has it for $1.43 a yard. First yard is expensive (due to shipping) but additional yards get much cheaper. I ordered 30 yards of it, cost was $61.90 delivered. Haven't had a chance to check it out yet.
I will likely start out with just a boom tent cover (to keep snow out of the cockpit) and then will try expanding it from there.
Shawn
I've used DuPont tyvek on my power boat for years. I always seem to find a partial roll at a new home building site for the asking. I use tarp clips to secure it.
Works great for our short mild winters here in Virginia.
TG
Have porch furniture covers made out of Tyvek, works great. It does abrade easily, but as Tim said, it's fine for our mild winters. You just need to accept that it is not a 20 year kinda cover.
Still hoping someone has a mast up cover experience on these boats.
Cool, glad to hear the tyvek should work. I think the marine version is multiple layers of fabric so hopefully it will last at least a little bit longer.
Thanks,
Shawn
if you use shock corded tie downs it will keep it more snug relative to wind, snow, rain, etc. It also will reduce wear on the attachment points.
It'll be a few weeks, but when I tuck Koinonia away in her winter pj's, I'll take some photos and post 'em here. Although it's a bit time consuming, I like my cover and the rather over complicated procedure I've invented for the framework. It's not as nice as Shawns and I may adapt his metal frame sometime, but the wood/pvc hybrid works great and is easy to fix. Plus I love the smell of the oiled canvas!
Bob23
I have owned three boats on the Delmarva Peninsula (Tanzer 22, Cat 22 and now the ComPac23) and have used nothing more than a large poly tarp purchased from Ollies. I take great care to use pipe insulation secures by wire ties for areas that may have high abrasion, such as the stanchions and parts of the mast. I know it is the cheap way, but there are more important areas to spend money on the boat. I have never had one blow away or apart-and that is saying alot given the winds we get here on the coast. Sometimes I can get up to 3 season out of a good tarp-it all depends on how you prep the boat and secure the tarp.
Hey Bullseye, thanx for the tarp suggestion. Still hoping to do a mast up cover as we are in a position to leave her on her trailer a short, no limbs or wires in way to the ramp for spring. If we ever put the mast down a mast up cover can be used as well. right now gunna try the no cover approach so can get sunlight, air, and have the solar ventilator work. Still thinking about that cover and hopefully won't regret the decision.
Noticed you are on the Delmarva. Check out the CBMWG gathering planned on the events section. Gunna have a grand time and will be good to get us 23'rs together.
I tried a tarp but only got 2 seasons from it. And I wanted to stand in the cockpit during winter storage. That's when I sprung for the canvas cover that I described above. Dang if I can find a photo of it although I know I have more than a few.
Bob23
Using the poly tarp, not only do I secure it by using the grommets, but I lash down the tarp using lines that crisscross over the tarp. This keeps it from flopping. Would I like a canvas cover, yes. But is it in the budget, not at this time.
Ah....all your boats are whimps! No Mas is jus gunna hang outside the winter sans cover. (sour grapes for don't have one!)
Bullseye, you know you wanna come to the CBMWG. Better mark the calendars now! It will be a 2 1/2 hour one way trip for us and know that as the boat sails you are not far away but by car another story. Still....
Quote from: Bob23 on December 22, 2015, 05:00:39 AM
I tried a tarp but only got 2 seasons from it. And I wanted to stand in the cockpit during winter storage. That's when I sprung for the canvas cover that I described above. Dang if I can find a photo of it although I know I have more than a few.
Bob23
So.....go take some more! Inquiring minds want to know. :)
Hate to say...it's not even covered yet. Christmas week. I promise.
Quote from: Bob23 on December 07, 2015, 04:59:41 AM
It'll be a few weeks, but when I tuck Koinonia away in her winter pj's, I'll take some photos and post 'em here. Although it's a bit time consuming, I like my cover and the rather over complicated procedure I've invented for the framework. It's not as nice as Shawns and I may adapt his metal frame sometime, but the wood/pvc hybrid works great and is easy to fix. Plus I love the smell of the oiled canvas!
Bob23
For those of you who just can't stand to wait, this thread, page 11.
http://cpyoa.geekworkshosting.com/forum/index.php?topic=2854.150
Thanks brackish! Not sure if anyone really has a winer cover with mast up as most folks who would but one on their boat have hauled it to a new location. We may have to be the first, though not this year. Already shot the budget with other projects. Next year will investigate the idea of a boom tent/cover to protest cockpit and companionway and maybe a smaller separate cover for hatch area.
A preliminary estimate for a full canvas, profession mast on cover would run 2K. Not gunna happen till all other projects are done. See threads for solar, refrigeration, ground tackle, etc........!
The pressure is off now Bob23! Heck, with this weather wouldn't bother. Go sailing!
You might want to look at the covers sold here http://thecanvasstore.com/wintercovers.html as the sell a cover that fits the standing rigging. I'm also on the Bay, and I purchased an over the toe rail cover from the canvas store as I keep my 26rk on a lift over the winter. As designed it works similar to a boom tent in back, and uses a forward halyard to support the the cover on the bow. When I purchased mine at the Annapolis boat show there were 3 or 4 companies selling similar covers. I'm on my third year, so I really don't know how they will stand up to time (as I recall the warranty is first rate, but I have not needed to test the service). They use Top Gun as the fabric which seems to last. I remove sails and all canvas, install the cover (about a 2 hour job after the first time) and place dehumidifying crystals in the cabin and the boat is good for the winter.
Hello Doug, thanks for reaching out on this topic. Will check them out. Can your cover be used mast up or down?
Also noticed you has mentioned the Bay as your location. Where on this wonderful Bay are you located? Not sure I know what a 26rk is?
No Mas
I would be willing to bet that he is talking about the Seaward 26R/K. The R/K stands for retractable keel. It is an awesome trailer sailor but very expensive.
I am telling you that if you look into it you can do the canvas work yourself. The cover would be a good place to start. It isn't that hard and you save a ton of money doing it yourself. I have done a lot of canvas stuff on my old boat and it wasn't too bad.
If I could just fabricate some stainless steel frames for a dodger and bimini I would be set. I could probably build a bimini and dodger for around $1000 to $1500 with everything I wanted.
Hey Heave i hear ya on the save money on diy projects. My challenge is more related to how i wish to spend our time. Having just helped start a business just three years ago the time I have is best spent growing the business so that sailing, music, skiing, festivals, etc. become more regular! I can say with confidence that if a cover happens it will be only after other boat related projects occur first. Certainly not before next winter. No Mas is gunna weather this one sans cover and all cloth.
We have a small farm and brewery and have had to do many if not all things here as diy projects. My time is best spent with those projects and gunna buy a cover if one is needed! However do love to do things and learn new skills, so if i do launch into a cover design and build gunna be coming your way! OBTW, you might be able to find a pipe bending jig somewhere used that could handle 1" SS. Looks as if the fittings for bikinis and dodgers are buyable. I've done some bending for electrical conduit and SS can't be all that different.
"Looks as if the fittings for bikinis and dodgers are buyable."
Hmmm...must be the post Christmas bleary eyes! My guess is that stitching up a bikini won't take all that much material or work, the Bimini on the other hand....!
Must admit it does seem like a doable project. The cost of materials for TopGun or Sunbrella seems to be kinda high.
You are right but the stuff will last you longer. When, and WHEN, I re-do my canvas it will be Sunbrella and not this Surelast crap that is on it now. I don't like that stuff one bit.
I am set up to do canvas work, for the most part. I have a very old heavy duty machine that will sew several layers of stuff. The hardest thing is keeping a good sharp needle and remembering what brand of needle I buy that works for my machine with V-69 threat. I can also sew V-92 but I prefer the V-69 because it is easier to work in.
No Mas,
We are on the Chesapeake Bay (almost). Technically, we are in Deltaville, off Hunton Creek which access the Rappanhock about about two miles west of the Bay.
Yea, the cover we purchased keeps all the standing rigging in place (it uses the mast and the boom to support the cover) you remove sails, any other canvas before installing the cover. They are custom made to specific boat designs so you would need to check and see if they have a pattern for the cp23.
The 26RK is a Seaward, with a retracting keel (which is why I can keep it on a lift), and they are not cheap, although I'm guessing a new ComPac would price out comparable to the Seaward cus no boat is cheap. We still have a cp16 CB, although it hasn't been wet since we bought the Seaward (likely will place it up for sale this spring).
Doug, you are just down the road! She won't be Tomato Sloop would she? Anyway you should make plans to come to the CBMWG on January 30th. A group of us Compacteers and certainly Seaward's (cousins, plus you still have a CP16!) Check out the particulars in the outings section.
Would love to see your cover, and boat!
Whats the hull number on your 16? Always wonder what happened to ours.
obtw......CBMWG =Chesapeake Bay Mid Winters Gathering.