Hello everyone,
I am a new Compac 16 owner as of yesterday. I need to put an outboard on her and I am looking for advice. I will have to motor for about an hour to get out to Lake Michigan( I am on the Grand River). I would love to hear advice on shaft length, whether or not I need a motor that charges the battery, weight,hp and best placement of the shifting lever and anything else you think is important to know.
Thanks for the help.
Wilbs61
The topic has been discussed quite a bit. You'll want something in the 2-5hp range, which might limit your options if a remote throttle control is a must have. The boat has a tendency to squat a little in the rear, so my personal preference is toward a lighter motor. I bought a 3.5hp Mercury last year with forward-neutral, which was 20-some pounds lighter than a 4hp with forward-neutral-reverse. The biggest downside of the 3.5hp Mercury (that I have found) is that there is no way to hookup an external tank, so I have to lean over the transom with a gas can and try to refill it every hour or so. Given the amount of motoring it sounds like you will be doing you might want to lean toward a motor with external tank hookup.
Hi Guys,
I went back a few pages on the forum and found all the answers I needed. Great stuff to read, lots of sailing wisdom.
Thanks,
Dave
Torqeedo or a robust (probably 36V) trolling motor would be awfully hard to beat ... pay up front, pay once, and be done. No more fuel nor maintenance.
Wilbs61,
I need to second Moonlight's e-trolling recommendation - if electric works for you. I sold my 1963 Evinrude & bought a Newport Vessels 50# thrust - LOVE IT! It sips power, has plenty of speed to push (and pull) my CP16, totally silent, fragrance-free(!), and lightweight. Bought mine directly from Newport Vessels - free shipping, no tax. AAA+!
Chuck
http://newportvessels.com/electric-trolling-motor-55lb-thrust-x-series/
Thanks for the electric recommendations. One question on that, do you use a solar panel for charging or have some type of charging system at the dock or simply pull the battery out and charge?
Thanks Dave
Hey, Dave.
I have a briefcase solar panel. But I've also charged the battery via 110V charger. (One's free, one's fast!)
Come back if you have other questions!
Chuck
Dave,
I recently battled a 15 kt. breeze on the Forked River inlet with my MinnKota 34# trolling motor on my CP16. It wasn't easy going and I was up to "4" out of "5" to continue making headway and maintaining steerage. I would think that a 20 kt. headwind would pretty much have me going backwards (or worse - sideways). Since you are headed for Lake Michigan, I would think that extra power would be important. A little research shows that a 55# thrust electric is equivalent to about 1 hp. Not a lot. ComPac recommends 4hp for a 16. That translates to 220# of thrust! That means my little 2hp Johnson should provide about 110# of thrust - not too bad!
I too use a "briefcase" solar charger and a regular 110v charger with a group 27 deep-cycle battery (weighs a ton) placed forward of the compression post. I ran cables to the lazarette where I have a "power" board containing a cut-off switch, volt meter, bilge pump, and + - terminals.
I think trolling electrics like my MinnKota are great on flat water and short runs in anchorages, etc. Serious electrics like the Torqueedo are probably wonderful, but $$$$!
Marty K.
1981 CP16 Pegasus
What is the best motor for a compac 16?
Three to four hp. And as light as possible.
Personally I like those used Briggs and Stratton air cooled lawn mower engined out boards.
About seven hundred bucks on line with zero time. UPS-able.
How many trouble free years does the lawn mower engine last with near zero care?
And for those who care, it's a four cycle. Not in production any more
For winter storage, I just pull the fuel line on a running o/b and let it fuel starve. I dump the tank's fuel into the Jeep. I don't even pull the engine off the transom. Just park the boat in a cement floor county fair cattle barn, unheated for six months. Always BP pure gas.
skip.
2.5-3.5hp Nissan Tohatsu.....27lbs, tons of thrust
good for repelling mosquitos too!
If I were to buy a new motor, I'd get the Newport Vessels 55# Thrust Electric Trolling Motor:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EYST1L8/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1BSO8S1KP9TSF&coliid=I6ON7913G36KS?tag=aspt-20
I look forward to not wintering a gasoline engine, but I can't justify the investment when I have a working outboard that came with my boat.
I use a 45 lb thrust motor on my 16/3. I use it with a small 12 volt 31AH battery (lighter, easier to carry) that serves me well on the small reservoir I sail on. Recently I put this same rig on my Grumman sport boat on a no-wake lake, and figured out something that I never really thought about much before, since I never ran my motor more than about 15 or 20 minutes to get my sailboat to and from the boat ramp.
With a gas motor, there is full power until it runs out of gas. But with an electric motor, the power dissipates as the battery discharges. After running about an hour and a half at a setting of 3 on my Minnkota, I discovered that I couldn't crank it up to 5 (top number) in order to scoot back to the boat ramp: the motor was no longer able to run at full thrust, though it still had enough juice to get me back to the ramp (eventually!). Good thing there was little wind and no chop to head into. Of course it's easy to paddle that sport boat, not so much a ComPac.
Makes sense, of course, but that's a difference with a gas motor, for sure. Next time I'll simply carry a spare battery to renew that full thrust if needed. But I always had extra gas for my gas motor, so never thought about the difference in operation before.
I was in a similar situation a month or two ago - i.e. trying to decide what motor to buy. I researched this forum and other places on the internet and mulled over it for weeks (off and on). Eventually, it boiled down to my priorities as a sailor. I intend to actually sail the boat (using the white flappy things for propulsion), so sailing performance is the number one priority. I got caught up in the "more horses are good" argument for a while, but then realized that that was a less important issue for me. In the end, I decided that I needed a motor that was as light as possible. There are only two full-sized outboards from well-known manufacturers that fit this criteria - the Honda 2.3HP and the Suzuki 2.5HP. I also got caught up in the "long shaft/short shaft" argument, but eventually realized that the boat was fitted with an adjustable motor mount, so that wasn't a deciding factor. At this point, I came across a post which pointed out that the Suzuki is much quieter than the Honda and that was the final decider for me.
Last point. I did also consider the possibility of an electric motor and many people have had success using them. I'm attracted by the idea and may revisit that option some time in the future, but right now it's not the solution for me.
I have a 2.5 horse Yamaha four stroke. It pushes my 16 up to hull speed before it hits half throttle. It is very quiet too. In the three years that I have used it, I have never had any problems starting it unless I forget to open the gas valve. I swap it out between my Weekender and the 16, and it works equally well for both. I think that I might need a different rake on the prop though. That is going to be one of my first projects next spring.
Al
Whatever kind of gas motor you use find gas without ethanol to run through it. I bought a new Honda 2 hp and had no end of trouble with the carb until I found pure gas at the new HyVee that came to town. I've had the motor for years and finally feel like I can trust it. Now my 4 hp Johnson Deluxe can take a break (kinda heavy anyway). I believe Seafoam helps also. It doesn't matter how big, small, what length the shaft if the damn thing won't run what good is it?
Fred
Quote from: Winded on November 12, 2015, 06:26:48 PM
Whatever kind of gas motor you use find gas without ethanol to run through it. I bought a new Honda 2 hp and had no end of trouble with the carb until I found pure gas at the new HyVee that came to town. I've had the motor for years and finally feel like I can trust it. Now my 4 hp Johnson Deluxe can take a break (kinda heavy anyway). I believe Seafoam helps also. It doesn't matter how big, small, what length the shaft if the damn thing won't run what good is it?
Fred
I Agree. I burn Ethanol Free in the 3.5 Tohatsu outboard. Great running and very clean exhaust. I since use it in the power washer and lawnmower. I realized fuel savings of 25% for the same amount of work performed. The higher cost of the fuel is offset by the better performance.
Here is a great site to locate fuel. http://www.pure-gas.org/ (http://www.pure-gas.org/)
I have a Sun Cat which I think would have similar engine requirements to the Com-Pac 16. I didn't choose my outboard. My used Sun Cat came with a Yamaha 4-stroke 4 HP outboard. For three and a half years this engine has served me well. Above an idle, she seems to be happiest at a little past 1/4 throttle where she pushes my Sun Cat along at about 4.7 knots. I have a 3-gallon tank connected by hose and she also has a small integral tank. I think she consumes around a third of a gallon an hour or maybe less. I usually only buy a gallon or two of ethanol free gas a year.
Heh! You said it, Fred!
Hadders, your quote is a funny variation on the classic, "I left my shoes and socks there, I wonder if they're dry". Is that your creation and is there more to it than just that line?
Fred
Couldn t agree more with the gas comment. I have run a 5hp honda 4 stroke on pure gas for five years, burn all gas out of carb on return to the dock and it still starts on the second pull.
There is no "best" motor! "Ya pays yer money ya takes yer choice"....Popeye the Sailorman. ;D
Ahoy,
My 16-2 came to me with a 1991 Johnson, 6 hp, 2 cycle, 57 lbs and awkward to mount by myself; more weight than needed on the aft end of the yacht. I sail salt water as well as rivers, tidal creeks and fresh water lakes. Pondered the Gas vs Electric for several months. I had concerns about the Minn Kota 55# thrust and the "oomph" it would provide against an outgoing tide (often 2 knots or more) and the wind in my face. I prefer the simplicity of electric, but finally admitted to myself that the power needed in the areas I sail in could not be provided by today's electric motors with the exception of the Torqeedo, which is not in my $$ comfort zone.... I have previously owned a Honda 2.3 and hated the thing. Noisy and no neutral. The centrifrugal clutch was always a problem to me.... To start it ... it had to be at about 1/3 throttle and as soon as it starts ... you are moving. As with many motors when first started ... you often have to goose them a little to keep them running
I wanted a 4 stroke and felt I needed a 2.5 to 4 hp. After reading many reviews and talking to a few users, I bought the 4 stroke, 30 lb Suzuki 2.5, which has forward and neutral gears, a 3 year warranty and cost $200 less than the Honda 2.3.
The Suzuki moves my CP16-2 at 6.0-6.1 mph (about hull speed) on the lake at less than half throttle. I hope the other half will give me the power I may need against the tidal flow.
ChuckO'
CP16-2 Carpe Diem
Charleston, SC
Quote from: ChuckO on November 14, 2015, 11:26:13 PM
Ahoy,
The Suzuki moves my CP16-2 at 6.0-6.1 mph (about hull speed) on the lake at less than half throttle. I hope the other half will give me the power I may need against the tidal flow.
I don't get this. The hull is limited in the speed it will go through the water, near 6 mph, isn't that the fastest it will go? Just because the boat is fighting a tide doesn't mean it can have a faster hull through the water speed to get the same over ground speed, or an I missing something?
Is there an assumption that more powerful motors will go faster than the hull speed, albeit inefficiently? Or does the extra power just get up to hull speed quicker? I'm just trying to understand.
Hull speed is theoretical max speed(the hull literally runs into its bow wave)and power available is insufficient to plane the hull. Theoretical since it can be exceeded somewhat(as in surfing). The advantage of more hp is if you are also fighting the wind. Opposing current is factored into hull speed. More hp might be be useful to hold a given course in wind and a vectoring current as well.
I know this is about 16's, but I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in anyway. I used to have a Nissan 2 stroke 8 hp long shaft on my 23. Once it got up to about 4.7 knots, it really didn't want to go much faster. This was in calm water. Any additional throttle gave little return in speed for the fuel consumed. I never tried to adjust the engine trim very much. As I'd push the boat harder, the stern seemed to squat down and if I walked to the bow, the boat speed would increase a bit. Since I sail in tidal waters, I liked the extra horsepower.
I recently repowered the boat with a Tohatsu (named Sue) Sailpro, 6 hp single cylinder 4 stroke, extra long shaft. First time out I noticed the boat motored along at 5 knots, sometimes a bit faster with no complaints from the motor. Seems the deeper prop and maybe the prop shape itself, were the factors contributing to the increase in speed.
Moral of the story: There's more to consider than just horsepower. As noted above, I like the available extra power when motoring into a headwind or opposing tide.
Bob23
Amen! Better to be somewhat overpowered and have a reserve if needed. ;D
Quote from: Craig on November 15, 2015, 05:58:51 PM
Amen! Better to be somewhat overpowered and have a reserve if needed. ;D
How many great sailing stories start with "No $#!t, there I was with excess power and plenty in reserve..."
;)
Thanks for sharing the perspectives. I appreciate it, even if it might reduce the number of stories I create.
Agree whole heartly, more horse's the better..........nies
i swear by a "cruise and carry" 2.7 hp air cooled outboard. they are light weight (extremely so). loud (extremely so), ugly (extremely so), obsolete (last made 1969) and do a great impression of a weedeater. i have two of them and wouldn't trade them for anything (except money). it is considered to be the "official emergency back-up motor of the CLR
Well it has been a ton of years since we had our 16, but bought her a used 4.5 Johnson long shaft and it moved her very well. More than enough power and had great range with a small 2.5 gallon tank sitting in the rear of the cockpit floor.
oh one final thought, the recommended shaft length is standard but the Johnson was a long shaft. You do not need to drop the outboard mount but can if conditions keep the prop popping out of the water you can, jus gotta watch as you come in to shallow water and remember to raise it.