Com-Pac Yacht Owners Association

Hello sailors!  Yes, I am new here, live on the fertile loamy prairies of Illinois, also  The Land Of Lincoln.  I am the proud owner of a Bristol clean 1981 Com-Pac 16.  It's perfect in everyway!  I will be sailing on Shelbyville Lake and Clinton Lake.  It is my hope to sail the Great Loop in the Fall of 2016.   I do have one question, The Ida Rudder?  Does it truly improve the sailing characteristics i.e. pointing to windward?  Is it worth the purchase?

I've been reading all of the posts here and have enjoyed them all.   I am sure I will have many questions in the future!  I also want to be helpful if I can offer advice but, only if I have knowledge of the subject.  Regards  Tim

double yes on the IDA!
100% different
enjoy

Tim:
   Welcome! There are a lot of folks here from Illinois and please stick around and check out the CLR (Carlyle Lake Rendezvous) which is the epic Compac event in the mid west. However far you are, it's still close enough- I drive from NJ to attend and it's worth every mile and dollar.

   And please don't let your perceived lack of knowledge stop you from posting here- it doesn't stop the rest of us!!!!  :) Looking forward to your contributions. I guess you are busy planning your great loop tour!
Bob23 and "Koinonia" 1985 23/2 in NJ

You are more than kind Bob!   Yes I was aware of CLR (Carlyle Lake Rendezvous)  I'm only seventy-five miles north of the lake and would not miss it for the world.  I hope to meet your acquaintance there!   Yes, New Jersey,  Have fond memories of New Jersey, The diners, newspapers, gardens, horse farms, and of course the Jersey shore.  Regards  Tim

Ahhh.  A man of impeccable tastes! CLR 2016- just around the corner!
Bob23

Don't you mean "Ahhh.  A man of impeachable tastes! CLR 2016- just around the corner!", Bob23?

TG

Decatur,

I'D A go for the rudder unless you can't afford one. In which case buy or make the equivalent. There are earlier threads as to construction methods.  

Flat plate rudders stall early unless the tiller is moved very gently as the stern begins to swing.  A stalled rudder is also known as a brake.  The IDA or equivalent is a hydrofoil that stalls later if the tiller is moved too fast. Before it stalls, it "lifts" the stern to a new course much faster, reducing the tendency to move the tiller too far and too fast.  I think there is also an interaction between the lift of the IDA and the lift of the keel that when sailing well balanced allows the CP 16 to point slightly higher.  

The IDA or equivalent can be a balanced rudder requiring less pressure on the tiller to hold a course.  The leading edge is slightly forward of it the rudder's turning axis when fully extended.  Be sure to double check that the rudder is fully down and forward before tightening the pivot nut.

Also highly recommended is an "over sized jib".  My '87 Mark II came with either a 130 or a 150, not sure which, but moving the total sail area forward makes a big difference. Moving the total sail area forward is the main difference between the Mark l and a Mark ll; the Mark l has a slightly larger main and smaller jib than the Mark II.  The Mark ll also has a bowsprit to make room for the larger jib.  I reef the main sail when the wind comes up before I change head sail back to the original jib.

My two cents worth . . .
Dave

Thanks Dave, that was very helpful.  I will look at the other threads on making my own rudder.   I also am going to price the IDA rudder too.  Is it an easy installation?   Yes, I have a 150% jib which helps greatly on these small Midwestern lakes.  Here in Central Illinois it is starting to feel and look like Fall weather.   Really, Really sweet sailing weather.   Blue skies and light winds, just does not get any better weather for sailing and camping.  What are some good companies to insure your yacht with and what are the costs?  I am totally clueless on the matter of insurance.   Smooth Sailing   Tim

Tim, I have owned a 1981 cp-16 and now a 1983 model, so ask any questions here, I saw you may do the Great Loop in the future- would you use the 16 for the trip?

Mike

Hi Mike....Thank you so much for replying.   Well,  truth be told, yes I am planning the trip now.  Plan on putting in on the Illinois River at Peoria, IL, in the late Fall of 2016, then  down Mississippi to Ohio River then down the Tennessee River.  Mike their is a great site on the net called "The Great Loop"   Plan on taking ten to twelve months to make it!  Hey, I'm in no hurry at all!  I have two issues that are a concern to me at the moment!  Boat Insurance, and an Ida foil rudder.  Have any thoughts on those two items Mike?

I've got a very sweet Com-Pac 16 in Bristol Clean condition, Perfect in every way.  Telephoned Ida Rudder people.  They want $295.00 for a new foil rudder, I told them I wanted a deal...50% off.  Ida Rudder saleman said rudder was not in production at the present time but they would sell me one with a weld blemish for $50.00 off list price and to contact them in November.  I'm very tired tonight so must close.  Best Regards Mike.   I am planning on using my 16 for Great Loop trip... I know that I can do it!!!

decatur,

i believe the loop is very doable in the 16.   i read a few years back of a man doing it in a potter 15, sans mast, using 2 electric trolling motors.

if i had the time off, i'd do it in our 19.

have you seen this site? http://www.captainjohn.org/GL-2-Intro.html (http://www.captainjohn.org/GL-2-Intro.html)

also, there a seminars at the chicago strictly sailboat show.

C.C.

Carl saw that boat for sale, it had 2 honda 2's on it. I think it was on craigslist somewhere around St. louis in the last few months.

Tim, I think it's great you may do the loop in your Compac, the boat is really overbuilt and capable. I may do the trip in a larger boat ( 19') for retirement.
I understand it's about 6000 mi. around the eastern US, mostly sheltered water. One can follow the seasons and have an endless summer! Kayaks and jet skis have done the Loop so the 16 must be more comfortable.
I have my boat set up for overnight cruising, spending up to 5 days at a time living aboard. As prep for the loop maybe you could start to set your boat up for cruising.
My 1981 model had a nylon anchor cleat in the bow, so I changed this out with an aluminum one with large backing washers. The boat also had no electrical system which I later added. It's all fun customizing your boat. As Carl mentioned check the loop link for Capt John ( good info here). Also the guy who motored about 3/4 around the loop in a 15' Potter :  http://towndock.net/shippingnews/dalamar?pg=1    
He started the trip on the Illinois river, near Peoria.

I only have the stock rudder which works OK for me, and  use my homeowners insurance for the boat, but others have had good results with Boat US.
If you'd like to discuss cruising mods for the boat , off this thread, my E-mail is in my Profile.

Mike        

Decatur,

The IDA (and others) and the flat plate rudder are held on with the same pivot bolt.

Dave

Gotta find out about the mastless Potter with electric trolling motors! There has got to be more to that one! No sail? Electric? I am a sceptic (unless he rowed a lot!).

I know very little about electric motors.  I like them because the are silent and less polluting.   I'm sure that they would push a Com-Pac 16 thru the water just fine. Do you need 2 batteries and a solar panel to keep the batteries charged?  Gasoline is a magic substance.  Can't beat internal combustion engines to get you off the dock and into the wind safely and quickly.  However, I do not like carrying gallons and gallons or highly flammable fuel on a very small boat.  Nothing definitive here!  Tim

here is the link.
http://wwpotterowners.com/SailingStories49.html

As far at run time on an electric I think these specs are extremely optimistic
https://www.trollingmotors.net/trolling-motor-run-time

I remember reading that a battery weighs about 1 lb per amp hour (one of Casey's books), and you don't discharge past about 50% and you can't charge much past the low 90% range for long (if I remember, losing 1% per day sitting idle) that means the average battery we see in most of our boats at about 40 lbs actually gives us about 20 amp hours to really work with. Even with that it would take this panel
http://www.batteryjunction.com/sunforce-37130.html?gclid=CPf-8rajl8gCFdgMgQodJFYCag

pretty much all day to keep up with the 20ah used plus any other electrics is use. Not to mention the price and size (almost 5 feet long...but two could be a nice hardtop on a 16!

I am not sure that electrics are less polluting or how green it is to manufacture a solar panel and associated electric motor...but I suppose it could be less energy that building the outboard motor. Sadly travel, by most standards, is relatively expensive. Especially by boat.

Off topic, I don't really see much green about a plastic boat and plastic sails... but I am ok with that:)

Thanks for the Potter link Matt! Very interesting blog. It does appear that he used two 2hp Honda obs. That makes sense. I had a 2hp Honda on my Potter 15 and it worked well. Having two for the loop would be perfect since they could be used singly or together if needed and you always have a back-up if one were to fail. The Potter is a tough,seaworthy little boat!

There is an aspect of plastic boats that could be considered pretty green.  Yes they are made of petroleum products, but they are not burned in the process.  They could be considered as sequestered carbon.  Plus they last an unbelievable time when compared with wooden boats.  Even if they end up in the landfill, they still hold their carbon probably forever. 

Al

I was thinking more of the VOC's, though in honesty, not my area or expertise...I hang out with a few EPA guys and they seem to think a lot about them.

I certainly would take the mast and do as much sailing as is practical.  

While cruising the Erie Canal on a "Mid Lakes Navigation" canal boat, I saw many snowbirds heading out of the Great Lakes heading to Florida and parts south.  These larger sailboats all had their mast stored from the top of the bow pulpit or a forward improvised crutch to a crutch at the stern.  Low bridges clearances on the canal required lowered masts. I was told there is quit a pile of left over crutch timbers at either ends of the canal, depending on the season. I think I remember seeing standing head room under the masts.  I can see doing the same with a C16.  (For towing, I currently store my mast from the bow anchor mount, through the mast step to a lower crutch, so my mast is always in the way at the cockpit.) That mast on a C16 stored from top of the bow pulpit to a higher stern crutch would also hold a boom tent or improvised cruising Bimini as needed, easily made from a tarp, lines, and struts. The trick will be to secure the forward end of the mast so that there will be no sliding forward and backward. If the stern crutch is high enough, possible standing head room from the cockpit? Certainly, comfortable sitting headroom with forward visibility.  I will start laying out my mast this afternoon with the intent of building a collapsible, cruising height, stern crutch. An "X" pattern will allow access to the tiller and the outboard. If standing headroom can be achieved, a second lower mast notch can be added for siting headroom with less windage on the boom tent and Bimini. Granted, there is not much room for storing additional stuff but skinny timbers with a bolt and wing nut can be tucked along a bunk.

I recently found this information (from another post) on batteries.  

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/deep_cycle_battery

Needless to say, next season's cruising range will be greatly extended.  When the wind dies on Smith Mountain Lake or the tide changes on the Potomac with no air, my paddle is too short . . .  I'm still thinking about sail/cruising the Erie Canal.  Those western villages along the canal have electric hook ups for charging the batteries and etc., and they are spaced about 3 or 4 hours part.

Success:

I used two pre-sanded and rounded, untreated pine, 1 by 2 by 8's cut down a little in length, notched and butted under the stern cleats with shock cord through drilled holes to secure them to the cleats.  Several heights of the mast can be chosen by moving the bolt up or down several drilled holes. The wind came up yesterday so I have not tried the several height options, but I do have standing head room at the highest.  The mast can be forward secured through the anchor clamp(?) for camping with the tent or moved up to the top of the bow pulpit for cruising under the Bimini.  I think I will have the option of just dropping the mast from the mast step to pass quickly under low bridges but the mast will over hang the stern quit a bit.  I may have to tie a support strut across the mast to protect the spreaders as I think that option will drop the spreaders in my way over the cockpit.  

Total cost about $3 not including spar varnish. Pictures in a couple of days if anyone is interested, the wind is still high today.

Keith at the Sailboat Company in Eastern North Carolina has done some mods to CP16's icluding adding a hinged mast and mast pulpit. You can see a CP16 with those mods on his main web page. Could make low bridge passes on the loop a bit easier.
http://www.ipass.net/sailboat/

Hey Tim, congrats on the CP16. Such wonderful yachts. We learned to sail on one (still learning!) on a 23 now. We already miss the simplicity of the 16. We had to step and unstep he mast more than once while still in the water. Very doable and light enough for one to do. Very exciting to think of a great loop trip. A once in a lifetime experience.

No Mas is unintentionally doing a loop of the lower 48 with time on the Great Lakes, then Alaska, Sea of Cortez, Gulf of Mexico and now the Chesapeake Bay in that older. The beauty of a transportable vessel! I would think that a Great Loop trip would give one perspective on the waterways that helped carve our nation before the advent of railroads. Hope it becomes a reality for you.

As far as a motor goes, we had no motor for a year or so with the 16, till my wife insisted after a tough day with a broken reefing system, no motor and mostly cross fingers navigation. I bought, that week, a used 4.5 Johnson long shaft that worked like a charm and the 3 gallon tank took us most anywhere we wished to go. I would assume that such a route has an unlimited supply of places to get gas for one. That was back in the no-ethynol days. Still most fuel docks offer the non-ethynol gas. Our little boat had no electrical so an electric motor was not a choice. I also would think that given the space considerations, weight and placement of enough batteries to use such a motor that you would be serving your motor rather than having it serve you. Just my opinion as we have never used one except small trolling motors on our canoe.

Keep us posted.

No Mas

No Mas....Well thank you so much for the reply.   Yes, my Com-Pac 16 is in very good shape for it's age. Built in 1981.  I've purchase a Tohatsu 3.5 horsepower, four stroke motor, long shaft.  Seems to work great.  While I was out in my machine shed today I was looking at the stern area and was thinking that I could mount another motor mount and run with two small engines.  It would bring the weight up to 100 lbs for both motors.   Just a safety measure, one engine fails you've got a back-up. I have all kinds of crazy ideas!  I don't know just a thought#$#$#%^.  I will finish working on May the 18th of 2016.  Then I'm free to do as I please.   Alaska...Yes, I have a small shack on the Kenai peninsula, near Homer and Anchor Point.  Wind and solar power for electric, propane for frig, and outhouse to do your business.  Just remember to take your toilet paper and pistol with you when you need to release the pressure.
Sails are good and crisp.  All fitting and screws have been tightened.  Still debating the date I'll head South?  I would really like to stick around until July 2016  too meet up with the Com-Pac sailors and their families when they make the trip to Carlyle Lake in Southern Ill.  I just live 75 short miles north of Carlyle lake.  How do you cook on a small yacht?  I just use a propane bottle and a screw on burner to heat my coffee and simple meals.  Huum... The Loop...Yes I've been reading a lot about it on the internet.  I know that I will be ruffing it but I've done that all my life.  Yes, I've slept in plenty of snow drifts and mud puddles in my life time.  So a small berth on a small boat is absolutely no problem for me.  If not now? WHEN?  I'm going!! Period.   Host Anchor and set the sail.  Love reading all the post here.
Oh Yes!  Yesterday it was 65 degrees  and fifteen mile per hour winds.  Not bad sailing weather for Mid-West Sailing in December.  Alas, I had to attend Graduation Ceremonies at Illinois State University, Bloomington, IL.  Well, I'm finished typing now!  Best Regards  Decatur
 

The Looping Potter 15 had two Honda 2hp gasoline engines, as stated in an earlier post.

Ron

Good call on the 4 stroke, one less thing to carry and have to deal with. We found the long shaft to serve our purposes well as we didn't have to deal with the lift on it but could drop it if the prop kept coming out when she was pitching, which she will do when steep waves happen like the bay can give. Unless you are going well away form help i would be tempted to save that valuable real estate on the transom for what ever. She is quite capable of sailing into port and light enough to walk her in at dock. If the motor needs work then it is easy enough to remove and chill for a couple days for repairs or worse case get another then.

Yeah we love the self contained easy to deal with kinda travel. We have a 4x4, Sportsmobile land yacht that has a similar set up as the boat. We don't cook much in the van but instead use a portable stove outside or a fire. It is nice though to have a stove and water inside for those yucky days. We have learned to be the one pot meal gourmets! A good quality stainless steel nesting set otta do you fine for that boat. Get a stove that has reasonable surface area and or some rails. We never cooked underway, did make coffee and such when heaving to, but was just to difficult to sail her and cook at the same time.

Spent a month heading up from Seattle up the sea to sky route up to Squamish then by land on to Whistler and beyond. What a beautiful area. Yup, it is against the law to carry loaded firearms in the lower 48 but it is against the law to not carry one there! If ever heading to the bay look us up.