Found a CP 19 I really like....but here's the big question for my old back.
How easy is it to raise the mast on the 19?
I'm quite sure the CP 16 is easy and I can walk it up, but how about the 19?
Also is the 19 significantly harder to launch because of it's size and draft?
Thanks, you all have been really helpful in locking me into the Com-Pac world.
Mark O
found a great answer about the mast in the archives...!!
Still love to hear comments on trailering and launching.
Mark O
I love my 19 but honestly - it's not easy (I'm 59 and healthy). Rigging and un-rigging when trailering is physically demanding. Every time I raise the mast (very difficult solo; my wife always helps me) there's a scary moment when I think disaster is at hand. Now I keep my 19 in a slip so I can go sailing without breaking a sweat.
The 16 in my opinion is much more manageable for frequent trailering. The 19 really shines for sleeping aboard, and for stability when wind and waves kick up.
Wes
And a SunCat has them all beat for simplicity and ease of raising the mast.
Ron
" Every time I raise the mast (very difficult solo; my wife always helps me) there's a scary moment when I think disaster is at hand. "
Baby stays take away that fear. Run a chain on each side between the life line stantions ahead/behind the mast step. Leave them loose enough so they can be raised to the same height as the pivot point of the mast. At that point on each chain attach a low stretch line (same length both sides) that is just a little shorter than your spreaders. Take the main halyard and loop it around the mast below the spreaders. Clip the low stretch line to the looped halyard below the spreaders. Take the slack out of the baby stays with the main halyard and cleat off the main halyard.
If you have it setup right (mostly the chain length) the baby stays will stay tensioned the entire process of raising/lowering the mast and they will keep the mast from moving side to side. That takes the biggest drama out of raising lowering the mast.
After that use your preferred method of raising/lowering the mast. I used a 4:1 boom vang for awhile (with long line in it) but then swapped over to the trailer winch as you could easily stop at any point (to clear a stay if needed) and it was less effort due to the gearing of the winch.
Shawn
Quote from: Wes on April 05, 2015, 08:05:03 AM
I love my 19 but honestly - it's not easy (I'm 59 and healthy). Rigging and un-rigging when trailering is physically demanding. Every time I raise the mast (very difficult solo; my wife always helps me) there's a scary moment when I think disaster is at hand. Now I keep my 19 in a slip so I can go sailing without breaking a sweat.
The 16 in my opinion is much more manageable for frequent trailering. The 19 really shines for sleeping aboard, and for stability when wind and waves kick up.
Wes
I would agree with that comment....great boat once in the water but at 68 it is a bit much alone.
Just my 2 cents... when I was in my mid 40s, I had a Merit 22 and a Victoria 26 , both trailerable, but I couldn't step the masts on either without assistance. The shrouds were offset and they were just too heavy. Now I have a Com Pac 19 and I step the mast myself (at age 62) with no worries and not a lot of physical effort. The mast is relatively short and only weighs about 40 or 50 pounds and the shrouds are in line with the tabernacle so there's no need to loosen them.
I've seen a lot of 19 owners that have elaborate stands for the masts when trailering, but the bow pulpit and stern rails are extremely stout so you can just bungee the mast to them and when you arrive at your destination, make sure the backstay and shrouds are connected, slide the mast aft far enough to run the bolt through the tabernacle (you have to keep pressure on the base of the mast because the stern rail is the fulcrum and there will be more mast aft of the rail. Once you have the bolt through the mast base, straddle the cockpit seats, put the mast on your shoulder and walk it forward. When it's up, grab the forestay and (keeping tension on it) walk to the bow and fasten the forestay and you're done (except for tightening the backstay, the shrouds should already be tight).
It is nice to have a helper (in case you let go of the forestay before it's fastened or if it's extremely windy) and they can help untangle the rigging when it gets caught on stuff (it will) but if you're careful and think about what you're doing, it's no big shake. It really isn't physically that hard, it's just ungainly moving a 22 foot stick around. I usually look for an out of the way place so if the worst happens I won't hit anything or anybody. As far as launching, with a shoal draft of less than 3 feet, it's as easy or easier than any power boat I've ever launched.
And finally, I love the way the 19 sails! I've sailed the 16 and it's a bit too tender for my liking and you can see why when you see them out of the water. The 16's hull is shaped like a barrel and the 19's is more like a bathtub. With the flatter hull, the boat is very stiff. I routinely run with full sails in 15-20 kts with 10 degrees or less of heel. My friend had a Com Pac 27 and, frankly, I much prefer the 19, My old Cherubini designed Hunter 36 was faster (but only by about a couple knots on most days) but not nearly as much fun to sail. It was like driving a Chevy Suburban compared to a Mazda Miata and I couldn't take it anywhere else. Surprisingly, the cockpit wasn't that much bigger in the 36 than in the 19 so two's company but four is not a crowd. The 19 is a great boat, I know you'll enjoy it.
i have been told that the mast of a cp19 is a lot lighter than the one on my catalina 18. at 63 i have no problem walking that mast up on the catalina. i do have an extendable mast crutch which helps a lot, it also doesnt hurt that im 6'5". my boat has a homemade jib furler which is both simpler and lighter than the cdi unit that came with the boat. without the furler mast raising is much easier however. i also use the jib halyard which is run through the bow cleat and back the a winch. it hold the mast while i attach the forestay.
Hi kickingbug 1,
Can you please tell us a little about your home made jib curler? Thanks, Rod
the furler is pretty simple. it consists of a solid aluminum drum (made at a local welding shop) attached to 3/4 inch pvc (for the foil). tell you what send me a e mail (fordtruck52@yahoo) and ill send what pics i have.
Raising the mast single handed on the 16 was no problem with a little help from a halyard around the bow roller but the 19 held more potential for disaster. Here are some pics of a gin pole system for my 19 that allows me raise it alone hands off the mast. The key is having briddles that allow the short temporary stays to pivot in line with the pivot point of the mast and gin pole to constant keep tension as the mast goes up and down. They are attached to the stantion bases as shown with carbiners. The upper part of the falls is hooked to a loop around the mast and pulled up with the halyard a ways below the speaders. The falls hardware is nothing marine, mostly pulleys and stuff from tractor supply. The rope is sta set, maybe over kill but I didn't want any stretch. The set up at the stern allows the mast to be high enough to begin lifting with no hoist from me.
This is my first attempt at posting pictures. Hope it works!
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/cp19%20lowering%20mast_1.jpg) (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/CPYOA/media/cp19%20lowering%20mast_1.jpg.html)
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/cp19%20attach%20to%20mast%20base.jpg) (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/CPYOA/media/cp19%20attach%20to%20mast%20base.jpg.html)
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/cp19%20mast%20cradled.jpg) (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/CPYOA/media/cp19%20mast%20cradled.jpg.html)
I should paid more attention to the previous posts in this thread, too eager to try to post my pics. Shawn describes the process well. I like the lifting angle the gin pole option provides. I hope the pics help
Me and my buddy with a CP-19 have two masts to push up in one day.
We both just heft the mast up off our stern pulpit and I place the mast on my shoulder while standing in the cockpit. Steve would scurry up on top of the cabin and then we would lift it a bit higher and then I would join Steve on the cabin top.
Together we just push the mast forward and up. Once in a while one of those side stays would be caught under the eye brow. And one of us would have to un-hook the cable from under the brow. Then come back and keep pushing the mast up. [Back stay always really loose]
All the time we have a safety line on the head stay feeding down through the anchor roller and down around the welded cleat on the trailer tongue. We usually find some cute young thing [a ten year old girl did just fine once] to just take up the slack on the safety line as the mast goes up. When and if we decided to take a rest we had the safety line cleated to the trailer. The mast would just hang where she tied it off. [Stay Set line. No stretch] And soon we would resume the raising.
Once standing tall [25 foot above the waterline] Steve would lean against the mast and I would climb down and pin the Harken '0-0' to my boat and he'd then tighten up the back stay. On Steve's boat we always have questions about the CDI flex-Furler. Can't make it easy it seems.
It's been at least 8 years since any side stays have been un-pinned from the chain plates. Always use a separate pin for each stay and turnbuckle. They operate on different angles at the chain plates and spreaders.
Hook up the electrics at the bottom of the mast and ... all done. We also have done this mast raising while on the water, tied to the dock without a safety line.
I would not recommend doing this. The trailer is much more convenient, especially if You drop the Harkin pin a few times onto the ground. We never take the time to rig any thing to help raise the masts. Takes about ten minutes once you get started.
skip.
Hi Phil,
I've got a question. You pull up the loop around the mast with your halyard. Is the line from the gin pole also attached to this loop?
Marc
Oops. Thought about that a little more. That can't work, can it? Awaiting your comments.
Marc
Yes I attached the the line from the gin pole to the loop around the mast, held by the cleated halyard and side to side by the short temporary stays. Added is another pic as I lowered the mast last fall. I'd scoured the web for safe single handed raising ideas looking at all kinds of boats and techniques. Funny thing, most of what's here ended up coming from a description of a CP19. I'm not sure if I remember right but it seems that the writer was describing what the owner did. Maybe someone here recollects the boat and owner. Using the mast step bolt for the gin pole pivot made this much safer than other many gin pole approaches and it proved to be easy to take out and put back in when the mast was raised and stays and shrouds attached.
a>
Trying again to post direct
(http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag89/maxwoodbuster/cp19%20mast%20halfway%20cr_zpsduckftrb.jpg) (http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/maxwoodbuster/media/cp19%20mast%20halfway%20cr_zpsduckftrb.jpg.html)
OK. I see what you did.
I think you may have used info I posted here in 2013. The gin pole construction, attachment and pulleys are a duplicate of what I had described and shown in my photos. Don't know what happened. I can retrieve my text but not my photos so good thing your pics are here. I was moving my mast without any temporary stays. Instead I let the mast lean against my body as the primary way to keep the mast centered as it was raised and lowered. Recently I got thinking that I ought to make some adjustments to my method to try to limit things that can go wrong. I will incorporate your system into my procedure this year.
Thanks, Marc
Raising and lowering the mast is a factor for us too. I recently purchased our 95' CP19 with a gin pole arrangement the PO fabricated. He used the main halyard winch on the cabin top, ran the jib halyard to the gin pole and another line through the anchor bow roller to the winch. It's a two man operation at minimum. We also had a Montgomery 17 which the PO had installed a remote controlled electric winch on the trailer mast. You would attach the winch cable to the jib halyard, stand in the cockpit and run the mast up, keeping it from swaying sideways. This he accomplished by himself. The only issue we had was the winch was permanently bolted to the trailer mast, even covered, was exposed to the elements. He also had a motor mount on the trailer and steps up to the boat. We replaced the winch with a four part tackle system using the cabin winch, but we were younger then. We currently keep our CP19 in a marina and I sold the trailer. Last night I needed to drop the mast to replace the steaming light, spreader covers and wind vane; I got help from two friends and it was quite easy to lower and raise. If I were to go back to trailer sailing, I'd opt for the remote controlled winch system; making raising and lowering a smooth operation, albeit slow. Hope this helps...John
"Yes I attached the the line from the gin pole to the loop around the mast, held by the cleated halyard and side to side by the short temporary stays."
Another way to try it is remove the line from the gin pole and just use the jib halyard to the gin pole. That should reduce the effort a little more as you are lifting from the end of the mast instead of the middle. Baby stays would stay in the same place you are using them now.
Shawn
We just lowered and raised our mast on our CP19. The boat is in a slip, which makes it a bit more challenging. The PO made a gin pole, but it's very heavy and awkward to use. I decided to use a three part tackle which I attached to the eyelet on the bow sprit with the other end attached to the jib halyard. To ensure control I ran the line around the cabin winch. Lowering the mast is easy until it gets about 30 degrees from the bottom, then you realize the weight. Mind you, we have a CDI furler which adds weight to the mast. Raising is actually easier. I used the tackle to raise it about 30-35 degrees from the bottom, tied it off with the winch and horn cleat, then stepped on the cabin in front of the mast and have it a healthy heave-ho and she came right up. The most critical issue is being sure the shrouds and back stay are free, and the back stay turnbuckle is straight up. The PO used the anchor roller, which would work as well. I just didn't want to remove the anchor when I had a shackle I could attach the block to the bow sprit.
We had a Montgomery 17 which was fitted with an electric winch on the trailer bow tower. The winch was remote control making raising or lowering the mast quite easy; a one person job. Of course, the M17 had a tall mast crutch attached to the rudder gudgeons. A friend of mine suggested using a step ladder in the cockpit on the CP19 which would work the same as a mast crutch. Again, our boat is kept in the water as we don't have a trailer. I believe a smaller gin pole made of a 2x4 would work as a good gin pole, or an aluminum pole; lighter and easier to store. Hope this helps.