Com-Pac Yacht Owners Association

General Com-Pac and Sailing Related Discussions => Sailing your CP - Tips and Tricks => Topic started by: deisher6 on March 16, 2015, 06:06:00 PM

Title: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: deisher6 on March 16, 2015, 06:06:00 PM
Heaving too is not new to this forum.  I have read threads here describing how to do it.  However I have never tried it nor seen it done.  That is until yesterday. 

Wes and Mack his sea dog took me sailing on the Pamllico Sunday in very stiff/gusty winds in his C-19.  Wes had a first reef in the main and only about 2/3 of the jib unfurled.  He showed me how to heave to: just tack, leave the helm over and do not tack the jib.  You wind up with the jib backwinded controlling the angle of the boat into the swell with the mainsheet.

I was impressed with how the boat quietly settled down.   What a good skill to keep handy.  Will try it out in our C-27 next time out.

Seeing it done was so much better than reading about it.

Thank you Wes and Mack.

regards charlie
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: atrometer on March 16, 2015, 07:35:30 PM
You're absolutely correct about something VERY good to know - could save your life too.  There are a lot of videos (many very good, some not so) that show "how to" on U tube
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: wes on March 16, 2015, 08:49:33 PM
Lin and Larry Pardey, in their book "Storm Tactics," talk about the almost magical ability of a hove-to boat to prevent big seas from breaking directly over it. Something about the sideways motion of the keel creating a calm area around the boat (actual physical calm, not just the emotional kind). As you might imagine they have survived some seriously huge storms at sea, partly by using this technique.

God willing, I'll never be surfing down 60' waves off Cape Horn like the Pardeys. But even on the not-so-mighty Pamlico, there have been times when I was stressed out by an unexpected crisis (caused by my own mistakes, usually) or just tired and not thinking clearly, and heaving to gave me time to rethink and regroup.

Very handy to keep a short bungee on each side of the stern rail, to lash the tiller in position when hove-to.

Wes
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Citroen/Dave on March 17, 2015, 09:03:06 AM
Things happen too fast on my C16 when the breeze kicks up.  How can a solo sailor heave to and reduce sail area at the same time?  What is going to keep the boat stable and balanced while the sail center of effort is being changed?  [I just purchased a drogue to keep me head into the wind while I go forward to down haul the jib and/or reef the main.]

I understand heaving to "stop" things from happening and I look forward to trying it, again. I am not yet comfortable with the idea of putting the boat out of balance changing the sail area while heaving to.
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: rbh1515 on March 17, 2015, 09:53:07 AM
I guess you can't heave too in a cat boat (without a jib), right?  I never had to do it in the many years of sailing the various sloops that I owned.
Rob
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Craig on March 17, 2015, 12:38:10 PM
Actually you can! Each boat is a little different but essentially you head up close to the wind,ease out the sail to slow down, as an option you can ease the peak(gaff) halyard to de-power  (The amount may vary boat to boat), raise the centerboard, trim the sail as if to tack and tie off the helm to leeward. In essence the boat tries to tack but with a de-powered sail and little forward motion, cant and just stays in irons permanently.Some boats may need a little centerboard for balance. You just need to experiment.
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Elk River on March 17, 2015, 05:57:36 PM
To Citroen/Dave:

     You could do as Charlie says; tack the boat, leaving the jib sheets alone.  Put your helm down a little, let your main out a little.  The jib is now sheeted on the 'wrong' side.  You could then let the main out a little more and tuck a reef in it while the boat is calm.  I have done this with a 17' 0'Day Day Sailor, and it worked fine.  I did not have an overlapping jib, so the boat was not overpowered in that regard.  Practicing in light-ish winds, when you do not have to heave-to, is a good idea.

     Elk River
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Bob23 on March 17, 2015, 05:59:32 PM
Dave:
  Mr. Elk would know. He was hove to while we were racing at BBB 2014...at least it looked that way.
Bob23...just couldn't resist!
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Elk River on March 17, 2015, 06:17:26 PM
You just ruined your chances of Blue Heaven pulling you out of the wonderful Elk River mud...

Yours Truly,

Elk River
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: redfishnc on March 17, 2015, 10:55:09 PM
I usually have to reduce my 135 jib to about 100 or so for my 27 to heave too.  My sailing instructor first demonstrated this for me on my boat, i was swayed...
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Citroen/Dave on March 18, 2015, 08:18:38 AM
Thanks for your comments.  I have some practicing to do and Spring has sprung in Central Virginia . . .
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: deisher6 on March 18, 2015, 08:23:31 AM
Good to hear that RedFishNC has heave too'd in a C-27.  I look forward to trying it.  I have a 110 and about a 155....Hope to be able to heave to with the 110.

Thanks to you all for your patience and comments.

regards charlie
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: BruceW on March 18, 2015, 03:28:08 PM
Heave to is a great maneuver; I try to do it every once in awhile so I don't forget how. I also learned to heave-to with my Suncat, as described above. What was funny was after I got used to the Suncat heaving to, I sold it and got a P-21. First time I tried heaving-to, I just went around in a bunch of circles, until friends who were howling with laughter finally caught their breaths and reminded me to back wind and hold the jib; then I let the tiller out, and bungeed it in place. I guess that time is why I keep practicing.

It's a great thing for taking a break, reefing sail, or even just sailing slow in a small lake when you want to take awhile before the next of 500 tacks.
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: mattman on March 18, 2015, 07:42:25 PM
Dave,  Here is a link on how it is done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI_PnHZwBOY
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: redfishnc on March 18, 2015, 08:57:15 PM
Charlie, In addition once we hove to he reefed the mainsail effortlessly.  Mine had a slight forward motion once heaved to but smoothed nicely.
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: deisher6 on March 23, 2015, 10:36:51 AM
Yep redfishNC, it works for a C-27:

Wes and I hove too in Windrunner yesterday.  We had a NOS Johnson 110 jib, a very old and tired Johnson main, 10-15 knots of wind and very little wave action.  The boat handled it very well and it was very easy to accomplish.  I think that reefing the main yesterday would have been easy to accomplish.

I have gathered (3) 110's, including the NOS one that will be the primary, so am having one of them cut down to a 90.  I look forward to seeing how that jib would heave too.

Thanks for all of your comments.  A great new skill for an old sailer.

regards charlie
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Citroen/Dave on March 23, 2015, 11:12:33 AM
Matt,

I was trying to depower a reefed main boat by dropping the jib.  I could not see how to keep any balance.  The obvious clue from the video was to drop the main and sail under the jib, alone.

Thanks for your help.

Dave
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: peterg on March 23, 2015, 05:32:41 PM
The C19s and C27 I have owned hove-to wonderfully with the headsail totally furled and only the main up. If you want to heave to and reef the main at the same time, heave to with a back-winded foresail, totally ease the mainsheet, lash the tiller to maintain jib induced hoving, ease the main halyard and reef the main, trim the main after reefing is accomplished, and remain hove-to with two sails......we had to do this drill for ASA keelboat instructor certification and it works well.
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: skip1930 on June 13, 2015, 09:59:36 AM
I heave too on stormy days when I tire and go below on my CP-19 for a little nap. [I'm old]
Lash the tiller. Jam cleat the rest of the sheets.
Calm as could be on board.

skip.
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Sail4Fun on October 31, 2015, 10:14:20 AM
Quote from: Craig on March 17, 2015, 12:38:10 PM
Actually you can! Each boat is a little different but essentially you head up close to the wind,ease out the sail to slow down, as an option you can ease the peak(gaff) halyard to de-power  (The amount may vary boat to boat), raise the centerboard, trim the sail as if to tack and tie off the helm to leeward. In essence the boat tries to tack but with a de-powered sail and little forward motion, cant and just stays in irons permanently.Some boats may need a little centerboard for balance. You just need to experiment.


Tried this yesterday on my Sun Cat with 10 knots and large 1 foot breaking waves (OK...its a lake!) but I was missing something.  I did very nice circles with the tiller tied hard to leeward.  Next time with the tiller only part way to leeward, it generally stayed hove to.  It still wasn't right.

When you say "ease out the sail", how were you doing that?  Apparently I'm not understanding the terminology.  I didn't change the peak (gaff) or loosen up (ease?) the boom sheets.  I kept the boom in the same position as if Close Hauled. 

I am trainable and I appreciate the patient help as I learn.

Rick
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Duckie on October 31, 2015, 01:01:59 PM
I don't know if you can do a proper heave to with a single sail.  I don't sail a catboat, but I do have a gaff rigged sloop.  In order to do a heave to manuver  you need the sails to work against each other with the rudder acting as a mediator.  I have learned that you can park a single sail rig by simply letting the sheet go.  the sail will wind vane and the boat should show its beam to the wind.  I don't know if that is trustworthy, but is might be worth a try.

Al
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Jon898 on November 01, 2015, 07:59:42 AM
See pages 24 and 25 at this link: http://www.go-embedded.com/Sailingmanual.pdf
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: captrank on November 01, 2015, 07:12:33 PM
I found the video of the man droping his main while hove to interesting. In my experience when you are hove to you are having the jib work against the main to help you gradually slide along. If I want to reef my main I use my lazy jacks to help me keep the main controlled as I partly lower it. It is of course best to reef BEFORE you find yourself in air heavy enough to require it.
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Duckie on November 08, 2015, 08:30:31 AM
I have single line jiffy reefing on my gaff sail.  I can reef it before the boat has a chance to drift out of irons.  I do it a bit different than  most with a Marconi rig, but it seems to work.  When I want to reef I put the boat in irons and haul in on the reef line while lifting the end of the boom with one hand.  This brings the clew up to the fully reefed position.  I then let the throat halyard down enough to let the tack pull down fully.  I can then cleat off the reef line and tighten the throat halyard.  I can carry on with just this, but I like to tie off the reef cringles if I can.  Otherwise, I will find a calm spot to do it or heave to with the reefed main and tidy up.  As you can imagine this all takes only a few seconds.  I have a topping lift on that rig, but by doing it this way I don't need it because the gaff is holding the sail up from the start.  I haven't tried reefing my CP this way yet, but I bet it will work just as well.

Al
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Mas on April 25, 2016, 07:45:39 PM
ok this is an old thread but a new question. Has anyone done this with a staysail? I assume it would work as well if not better than the jib as the center of effort is more aft and closer to effort of the main. if the genoa is furled and two reefs in the main then the staysail will more than likely be employed. Our little boat has a baby stay with a hayfield lever for the deck attachment. It remains removed otherwise so the genoa does not have to be walked over around the inner stay. Never sailed with a cutter rigged boat but will be soon.

Any thoughts on the old question with a twist?
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: deisher6 on April 26, 2016, 09:35:33 AM
Hey No Mas:
Good question.  I would bet on it working.  It sounds as if you would use it when you are out in a very windy day.  I would suspect on such a day the furled genoa would provide some forward windage to help out.

But if it were my boat I would try it on a 15-20 day to see if it works before I needed it to work. 

But hey you already  know that.  Post how it works out.

regards charlie
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Mas on April 26, 2016, 08:44:22 PM
Hey Charlie,

Thanx for the reply. Will be doing lots of sail configurations before they are needed. Learned that lesson the hard way on a smaller (CP16) and had a pretty interesting reach back to safe haven. Still married! Never did that again.

Will be sure to keep all posted, just gotta get her in the water after some overdue needs are finished. New boat to us but not a new boat.  :)
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: deisher6 on April 27, 2016, 09:06:30 AM
Hey No Mas:  Your response got me to wondering what you are sailing.  I have heard and seen a couple of older Tartan 30-34'ishs with the removable baby stay but not much else.....possibly a Island packet 27?

regards charlie
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Tim Gardner on April 27, 2016, 06:05:06 PM
No Mas is a CP23D, Charlie.

  TG
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: deisher6 on April 28, 2016, 09:15:58 AM
Thanks Tim:  Is the baby stay a stock option on the 23D?  If so I wonder why?  Can you sail as a cutter?
regards charlie


Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: Mas on July 24, 2016, 07:20:44 PM
Hey Charlie, so sorry just noticed this question. Not a stock cutter rig, she was converted to cutter by a previous owner. Have not had any need to employ the clutter, uh I mean cutter rig and based upon the condition of the staysails, neither did he! In a nutshell yes she is set up to be a cutter but little need at present. I wouldn't have done it but it is nice to have the option if needed. Well actually did need to drop the forestay while fully rigged and was able to do so by attaching the baby stay till work was finished, so guess i did use the extra stay once!
Title: Re: Heave too, always good to learn something new.
Post by: DaleM on September 29, 2016, 08:22:22 PM
Bruce and fellow sailors, great video on the Heave Too you suggested! Excellent!
The challenge is keeping cool and practicing.  I try to practice as often as possible with good wind.  Gusty winds have taught me to reef early, trust my Compac 16 and keep cool!
Thanks Bruce for the post.