I was wondering how folks here re-do their bright work. Sand is place or remove, sand and re-install? If you want to remove the wood is it glued as well as screwed? Is it a bear to remove the wood?
I do not sand since on my Eclipse I have not put any finish on that requires removal. I use Semko natural. It is an oil based really thin teak prep that goes on clean wood and is a breeze to re-coat. It is absorbed almost immediately into clean teak. I used a natural teak cleaner that I bought from West Marine. It took two cleanings to get it really clean. Two coats of Semko (on dry wood)and I really like the way it looks. I have a rag with alcohol on to wipe up runs. It takes about 20 minutes to re-apply.
On my previous boat I would remove the handrails to sand them clean and re-apply varnish. Other small pieces of teak I would sand in place. The handrails were screwed in with a little caulk (Boat Caulk) so they would not leak. They were easy to get off except for the first time.
My 89 CP23 came to me with weathered teak in some spots, and flaking varnish in others, and solid varnish elsewhere.
By the next spring a good portion was flaking off. I was able to scrape off a lot with a hand scraper and a single edged razor blade, but some spots were a real bear. Next sanded with a palm sander, and by hand where the sander could not reach. All done with the teak in place except I took out the teak boards from the bow pulpit and the swim ladder treads.
Finished with two coats of Cetol, which was based on recommendations from this forum and others. No sanding between coats, and you can recoat over it later down the road. It looked great, but can't attest to the long term because I only had the boat another year past that, but there was no visible change in that year/overwinter. I went that route after I talked to a couple other people who were masking off everything and oiling their teak about once a month they said.
I'd just as soon get it over with and hope it lasts for a rew years, then have to remember to do it frequently.
Getting ready to do my current boat, maybe. Same situation, varnish is all flaking, 95% is gone and the teak is just natural gray where its gone. I may sand off the rest and just leave it that way. ..until I get ready to sell the boat, then I'll clean it up and make it look pretty.
Rick
I used to use Semco also; I would alternate between clear and gold tone. This was on my Suncat. I havent' done anything to teak since then. My current boat, CP 23, is just weathered teak. I may go back to cleaning it like Al mentioned, and using Semco. I may wait a dozen years first, though, ;)
Good suggestions, all.
Does Hutchins us the dreaded 5200 when installing the teak? I can see how easy the screws are to remove, but having never done it, I was wonder how difficult the wood is too remove because of the adhesive.
On my CP23 I removed all but the very thin "eyebrow" teak boards to refinish them. The eyebrows seemed to me to be too delicate to try to remove them. I plan to refinish them in-place. The rest of the brightwork came off easily. I don't think there was any glue.
-Speak
I also removed everything on my 23 with the exception of the eyebrows and the companionway drop board brackets. I left the eyebrows because they seemed too difficult to get off and the brackets because they seemed to be easy to finish in place. I've done this a number of times, and on the last reinstallation the screws in the handrails finally turned when tightening them, so next time I'll have to pull the plugs, however, I have a plug cutter and some scrap teak.
I'm currently letting the eyebrows weather to gray and will probably use Semco on them. Tired of the Bristol work for the disappointing longevity, I may go with Semco for everything.
My teak was not glued on, only had a polysulfide type caulk such as Boatlife, and that is what I used to put them back each time. No leaks and easy to get off.
Did the "Varnish" thing on a large sailboat many years ago and wound up taking it all off and switched to another product tested and recommended by Practical Sailor - Sikkens Cetol Marine Finish.
Since then I've used Sikkens Cetol Marine finish on all my boats, both large and small, for many many years and am very satisfied with it's look and performance (longevity).
There are three important things to remember about Cetol to ensure satisfactory performance.
First, is surface preparation. After sanding down to your satisfaction thoroughly wipe the Teak down with a rag soaked in (fast evaporating) Acetone changing to a fresh section of the rag periodically. This not only serves as a "Tack" Cloth to remove the fine dust particles but more importantly IT REMOVES THE SURFACE OILS FROM THE TEAK AND THE PORES JUST BELOW THE SURFACE. This then allows the Cetol to penetrate deeper into DRY wood and form an air tight strong bond with the wood.
Second, follow the manufacturers directions and apply AT LEAST THREE COATS. Four coats is even better. Remember NO SANDING BETWEEN COATS - that is what makes Cetol so appealing to me.
Third, try to protect your Teak from damaging effects of UV and weather as much as possible. This means covering your trailerable boat with a tarp (preferably WHITE) when not in use, like I do, or putting some kind of removable covers on the exposed wood. If there's a will, there's a way. I've seen Sunbrella Fabric, other Fabric, PVC Pipe Sections, etc. used for this purpose. Takes only minutes to remove the protection working for you 24-7-365.
My original application of Cetol Marine Light to virgin Teak on my New 2010 Sun Cat was given a 2-coat "maintenance" application after 44 MONTHS because it was a convenient time (borrowed air conditioned man cave) not because it really needed it!
capt_nemo
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/Sun%20Cat%20Maintenance/IMG_0390.jpg) (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/CPYOA/media/Sun%20Cat%20Maintenance/IMG_0390.jpg.html)
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/Sun%20Cat%20Maintenance/IMG_0391.jpg) (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/CPYOA/media/Sun%20Cat%20Maintenance/IMG_0391.jpg.html)
Don, your teak looks great in the photos. I think that Cetol Marine is what is on my Suncat, Nomad. It needs a bit of a touch up. I also have used it for years.
Did you have any problems with it seeping under the blue tape you put on? And if so, what do you use for clean up?
Thanks,
Ron
After years of using different things, finally found Cetol Marine......................Phil
hoddinr,
I do get a few seeps under blue tape - especially if I don't press all edges down hard with my fingernail. Applying thin coats helps keep runs to a minimum - just apply more coats to achieve a good product film thickness on the wood surface.
Cleanup on a WELL WAXED surface is easier - worthwhile to clean and wax around exterior teak before taping and recoating with Cetol - using the least aggressive means first and proceeding to more aggressive methods if necessary. Sometimes it will rub off with just a rag with pressure or chip off easily with a carefully applied razor blade edge or X-Acto knife. Otherwise, try acetone, soft scrub, or more aggressive use of razor blade edge.
capt_nemo
Use a heat paint stripping gun and a 3-M green scratch pad and gloved hands to remove all coatings from teak which I'm letting go to natural grey after words will come a cleaner/brightener and then nothing but many coats of Min-Wax.
Want to loosen the 3-M 5200 after the screws are removed and the teak is stuck on? Heat the 5200.
Life's too short for varnish.
skip.
Another vote for Cetol here. Use 3-4 coats of Cetol light and then 2 coats of gloss and it looks good. I hate messing with bright work. I would prefer stainless steel. Sailing is better than wood working!
Sailing is better than wood working!
Au Contraire, as a long time woodworker I hold them both in high esteem. However, what you refer to is not woodworking it is wood refinishing. Now that I hate.:)
All I know is that ANY finish will work if all the wood is covered most of the time and protected from UV. Nothing seems to work if it is not. If someone can invent a coating that will give five years in UV with a single coat recoat where the finish doesn't fail all the way to the substrate even in small areas, the world will beat a path to their door.
On my last boat I fabricated sunbrella covers to cover all exterior wood. They looked pretty snazzy. In fact, they looked so snazzy that I never removed them. LOL
I have a feeling that I will be doing the same in the future for this boat. I hate doing the wood, no matter what wood I am doing!
I use Sikkens Cetol as well. Just finished applying second round after neglecting it for 3 years and exposing it to the Florida sun 24-7-365. I could have gotten away with applying an additional maintenance coat if I had simply applied it before last summer. Friends with varnished surfaces on their boats seem to be refinishing much more often.
It sands off more easily than varnish when necessary and is easy to apply. The old and new teak surfaces all looked good together after using the Cetol natural.
My only difficulty has been seepage under the blue tape. I now remove the tape after each coat to make sure I can wipe away any Cetol that has gotten underneath. When I used it the first time around, I applied 2 coats one weekend, and the 3rd coat the next. The seepage was DIFFICULT to remove after 1 week, but very easy if taken care of right away.
have used Cetol for many years with several boats and have been very satisfied.
after stripping the wood on the most recent boat ( C16), even with minimal teak, decided to go with the oil and cleaner route.....have also been very satisfied !
j
HeaveToo,
With your Sunbrella Covers you've provided proof of what I strongly believe when it comes to SOMEHOW protecting Teak from the ravages of UV and weather damage- WHERE THERE IS A WILL - THERE IS A WAY!
capt_nemo
I'm surprised that no one has developed a substitute for teak that would be less maintenance but still look good.
At the chicago boat show, I passed by the booth for this fake teak decking
http://www.plasdeck.com/ (http://www.plasdeck.com/)
Not sure what the material was, but there was also a couple of pieces of fake teak handrail.
I briefly picked it up, it looked like it was similar to the plastic deck lumber they sell at Home Depot.
..but I wasn't that curious about fake wood, so I didn't really check it out.
The teak conundrum! If you can protect it with tarps,covers, etc ANY coating will last a long time. Unfortunately most of us can't afford to have custom covers made for a boat that resides in a slip or on a mooring. Even so, it is hard to cover everything and a pain to remove,store and re-cover. For those of us who live in more tropical climes, the problem is even more acute. ANY "hard" coating WILL peel and flake(Murphy's Law, corollary 157). What to do? Oil must be scrubbed and re-oiled frequently. It is essentially a dirt magnet and fertilizer for mold/mildew . The old timers just used saltwater and holystones(constantly!) to keep the teak a weathered white. Most of us want a little richer look and un- sealed teak turns black in short order in the marine environment. Enter Semco. Easy to apply, easy to clean up(even after it has dried) and easy to re-apply. Not as pretty as varnish or Cetol though. It all boils down to the benefit/labor ratio. Using Semco I can keep my teak looking pretty good with a minimum of hard labor. In the immortal words of that old salt Popeye, 'Ya pays yer money,'ya takes yer choice"! I am in the process of re-coating right now and am experimenting with using a 3M green kitchen scrubee pad(sponge backed) to apply the first re-coat of Semco. It smooths the teak without over-abrading and evens out the coverage. So far so good.
Making custom covers is pretty easy. It also is a good skill builder to do more skilled canvas work.
It doesn't take a fancy machine either. You can sew V69 thread with your wife's machine.
That's why I make my own sails with an older Husqvarna Viking Sewing Machine - works great! My wife won't let me touch her very expensive Embroidery Machines.
This one is a Light Air Mainsail for a Sun Cat, set "flying" and made with Rip Stop Nylon.
capt_nemo
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/com-pac%20sun%20cat%20pics/100_1573.jpg) (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/CPYOA/media/com-pac%20sun%20cat%20pics/100_1573.jpg.html)
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/com-pac%20sun%20cat%20pics/IMG_0129.jpg) (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/CPYOA/media/com-pac%20sun%20cat%20pics/IMG_0129.jpg.html)
Quote from: Craig on January 21, 2015, 08:55:05 AM
The teak conundrum! If you can protect it with tarps,covers, etc ANY coating will last a long time. Unfortunately most of us can't afford to have custom covers made for a boat that resides in a slip or on a mooring. Even so, it is hard to cover everything and a pain to remove,store and re-cover. For those of us who live in more tropical climes, the problem is even more acute. ANY "hard" coating WILL peel and flake(Murphy's Law, corollary 157). What to do? Oil must be scrubbed and re-oiled frequently. It is essentially a dirt magnet and fertilizer for mold/mildew . The old timers just used saltwater and holystones(constantly!) to keep the teak a weathered white. Most of us want a little richer look and un- sealed teak turns black in short order in the marine environment. Enter Semco. Easy to apply, easy to clean up(even after it has dried) and easy to re-apply. Not as pretty as varnish or Cetol though. It all boils down to the benefit/labor ratio. Using Semco I can keep my teak looking pretty good with a minimum of hard labor. In the immortal words of that old salt Popeye, 'Ya pays yer money,'ya takes yer choice"! I am in the process of re-coating right now and am experimenting with using a 3M green kitchen scrubee pad(sponge backed) to apply the first re-coat of Semco. It smooths the teak without over-abrading and evens out the coverage. So far so good.
The proverbial nail has been hit on the head.:) Please post pictures when completed, I'm thinking about going the same way.
To illustrate how UV/weather affects coatings, when my boat was new ten years ago, the PO painstakingly applied the Waterlox system a highly regarded tung oil based varnish to all teak, both interior and exterior. Every square inch of the interior is perfectly beautiful ten years later with zero maintenance. The exterior started failing after a couple of seasons, and I moved on to Bristol Polyurethane which has been redone three times and has failed again.
And no, life is too short to run around the boat removing and replacing custom covers every time I want to go for a sail. Been there, done that, even got the wasp bite to prove it.:) And then I've got to wash the covers every year, apply 303 guard, etc..........it never ends.
Sheesh Brackish, washing the covers every year? I never washed mine and they were fine in the 8 years I had the boat since I made them. The thread is the first thing to go.
I rarely took mine off. I sailed with the covers in place a lot of the time, except if they were a winch cover or something like that. I had covers for the dodger windows and those were removed too.
I would love to see Compac do stainless on the exterior instead of wood. That would be really cool and it would look neat. Other manufactures have done this and it lowers the maintenance on the boats on the exterior.
The short answer is that whatever you do on the outside there will always be maintenance.
Sheesh Brackish, washing the covers every year? I never washed mine and they were fine in the 8 years I had the boat since I made them. The thread is the first thing to go.
I might suggest that you are fortunate if you keep your boat in an area where you are not subject to tree pollen, bird and spider poop, spider webs, dirt dauber nests, mold and mildew.
I wash my sail covers, and other Sunbrella items often in place and take them off once a year to machine wash them prior to treating them with 303 fabric guard, recommended by Sunbrella to extend their life and slow down UV fading. It works, but I don't wish to add to the load.
Pretty hard to get into the cabin if you leave the cover in place over the drop boards and I think my sliding hatch might not slide so well if I have covers over the guides. Not much point in having hand rails if you have them covered so they can't be used, and I don't think my anchor would deploy too well if I had a cover over the teak bowsprit. If you leave it all covered all the time why not just take it all off and plug the holes that would really solve the refinish problem?:)
Somehow I don't think stainless trim would look right on my Horizon Cat! I think the future of low maintenance lies in wood-look synthetics, at least for boats with a traditional look.
Check out plasteak.com for a plastic alternative.
I ordered my Horizon Day Cat with no exterior wood except for the tiller and bow sprit. Starboard replaces all the other wood, except for the "eyebrow" which is replaced with a stripe. I saw the plasteak product at the Chicago boat show. Looks like a very nice product.
Rob
Just got back from Kailani. Teak came out very well with Semco. Good to go for several months then I will scrub with Spray Nine and recoat when teak is dry. 3m green pads work well to get rid of "fuzzies" and smooth the teak. Easy clean-up with alchohol and paper towels.
Quote from: Craig on January 23, 2015, 05:48:25 PM
Just got back from Kailani. Teak came out very well with Cetol. Good to go for several months then I will scrub with Spray Nine and recoat when teak is dry. 3m green pads work well to get rid of "fuzzies" and smooth the teak. Easy clean-up with alchohol and paper towels.
Cetol? thought you were using Semco.
If Semco, do you even bother to mask?
Capt Nemo,
Your teak looks great! But, what is the quote on the cabin bulkhead door?
Fred
Okay Brackish, you caught me. I did take off the companionway cover and winch covers often. The static wood that had nothing around them I rarely took them off. I had no trouble grabbing handholds with my covers over them. I never made one for the bowsprit on the Catalina 30. I simply put a coat of cetol on it every year.
Wood looks great on a boat. It works great. It is a wonderful thing, until you have to refinish it. Then it is a pain in the Keester!
I am thinking that I want to make a cover that covers the entire boat for off season or when it is on the trailer eventually. That would save a lot of weathering of stuff.
I also have the teak cockpit floor grate. I probably need to give that some attention soon. Ugh. I think that I will attack with a heat gun and sand it lightly at first to see if that helps and re-finish with cetol.
OOPS! Had Cetol on the brain from previous post.Too much sun, salt air(and ADD)! LOL Fixed now. Love the edit feature here! By the way plain water clean-up for brushes containers, etc. Alcohol for spills/runs. Even old dry spots come off with alcohol. I don't use any masking. I keep a wad of paper towels soaked with alcohol with me and clean up as I go. Not much of a problem since Semco tends to soak in rather than run unless you over-wet the brush. I use Semco on my teak floorboards because it is easy to maintain and not slippery when wet.
I wonder if Semco would be good on cabin sole? I am a fan of Semco for the teak, although with current boat, it's all just grey (or is that gray?). My cabin has worn spots, etc, and needs something, but I want to do what is good and easy.
What is your cabin sole made of and how is it finished now? Semco might or not be appropriate depending on those two parameters.
I'm sure that's a valid question. I have no idea; it appears to be that teak and holly plywood, with the finish worn off over the years. No idea how I'd ever even come up with the answer.
Maybe once I do the external teak and have some Semco on hand anyway, I'll try some in the really worn places, see what happens. I don' t need shiny.
If your teak and holly sole has a hard finish(I would suspect it does), you would have to remove it since Semco must be applied to bare wood. IMHO you might be better off to sand and refinish with a hard coat like varnish. Not sure as to the suitability of Cetol for a floor.
Craig & Shumway,
Craig - I used Cetol on my tiny teak and holly sole in my Sun Cat then proceeded to cover it up to protect it with a nice carpet remnant. The carpet feels better on my bare feet and provides traction.
Years ago, after sanding a large trawler aft cockpit floor of teak and black caulk down to bare wood I applied 4 coats of Regular Cetol. It received a lot of use while we lived aboard and held up quite well indeed. Maintenance coats were applied every few years.
Shumway - The quote on the forward bulkhead door of my Sun Cat is my absolute favorite because of its profound meaning. Photo provided below.
capt_nemo
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l594/CPYOA/Com-Pac%20Sun%20Cat%20Mods/IMG_0029.jpg) (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/CPYOA/media/Com-Pac%20Sun%20Cat%20Mods/IMG_0029.jpg.html)
Great quote! Going to have to have that made into a brass plaque.
(http://www.myengravedsign.com/xp2/template_images/1_7_6259084.jpg)
Shawn
Shawn,
Your plaque is not an accurate quote.
It should read "... , but IN the other troubles of life WHICH MAY BE EVEN MORE DISTURBING, it is a safe retreat".
CORRECTIONS ARE IN CAPS.
capt_nemo
No varnish...thank you
Cetrel is the way to go.
Actually, polyurethane "varnish" not exposed to direct UV is very durable. Think basketball courts,hardwood flooring,etc. Resists water(the reason modern furniture rarely gets water rings)well. One of the reasons varnish on teak is problematic is the very reason it is so weather resistant.......it is loaded with lots of natural oils which eventually work their way back up to the surface. This compromises the coating-to-wood bond and hence blisters,peeling and flaking. Interior teak is less of a problem since it is not subjected to being baked in direct sunlight which exacerbates the oil migration problem as well as the UV degradation process.
There is a place on stockton lake that is hydro dipping teak. They sand then dip using a teak print. Then they clear coat using automotive clear. Then they wax. The resulting product looks very good and just needs a coat of wax once a year. It also dosen't need to be covered. They have been doing it for a few years and it works great. I am thinking about doing it. Anyone else ever heard of this?
-Chris