I just stepped the mast on Teddy B for the first time in 20 years, and found that the same 0ld problem I had since I bought the boat in '76 was solvable by raising the mast by 1" in the tabernacle. (Maple shim for now). This allowed me to tune the rig, whereas before, all turnbuckles were completely tight with still some play in the rig. Forestay and shrouds, including turnbuckles, chainplates etc. are all original stock, and measure out to spec. Anyone out there had a similar problem on a 16/1? Also need a jib block for the mast. Original is a Holt Allen, and I can find only in England. How about substitutes? Any help here? Tnx! --- Pat
Hi Pat
I'm sorry I can't help you in return for all your help.
Just wanted to let you know my boat is a '76 too!
Liane (the also ex-chemist)
i have the same problem, but i blame it on a non-original jib roller system. The swivel fittings and such added length to the forestay. I like the idea of shimming the mast up a bit, never occured to me? You said you used maple as a temporary fix; what were you going to use permanently?
matt hallas
'76 cp16 "Sarlacc"
Hi Matt
My permanent solution (short of shortening shrouds & forestay) will be a 3/4' block of aluminum cut to fit the tabernacle, and tapped/screwed from the sides to keep it in place. Haven't measured, but I think some stretching took place over the years.
Liane, what number is your 16? Do you have the original Johnson sails with the number as well? (I'll bet you know what C2H5(OH) can do to you)!
--tnx guys! As they say in amateur radio land, 73's. -- Pat
Pat
burn a hole in your esophagus? run your car? make REALLY bad punch?
The question is, Pat, what do YOU use it for...
What number are you looking for? the VIN? or a model number or something?
Have the sails with the CP symbol on it (that's how I found out the manufacturer, boat didn't come with title, had to really work that one out, but made it thanks to friendly lady at OR marine board not afraid of microfisch), never noticed any numbers on the sail. When I **FINALLY** get 'er in the water next weekend, will look more closely.
BUT FIRST, as long as I've got your attention...a VERY IMP QUESTION:
I can see from pics that a line runs from the boom to the top of the mast, to help hold up the boom (in conjunction with it hooking to mast towards bottom end)
BUT: I don't see where it would go to on the top of MY mast...
I've got the side-by-side pulleys in the cast steel open ended box on the top, but figured that was for the main halyard... And there are no other holes to put a u-shaped thing with pin through, to make another loop to pull a line through...
*********************
What does the line going from the aft end of the boom to the top of the mast connect to at the top of the mast?
*********************
Again, sorry I don't have answers for you. But I"ve got plenty of questions!
Been working on the boat ALL day, covered in tiny fiberglass particles and goo.
Can't wait to get this girl on the water!
THANKS!
Liane
Liane,
You really are a chemist!!
The line you are referring to is the topping lift, and on my mast there is a convenient hole (about 1/8") drilled between the two pulleys, and slightly lower of center. I just tie off a braided line through here, and tie the other end to the hole in the aft end of the boom.
As far as the ID numbers, found this from Craig who posted it on a previous page in this forum: http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.html
Should help
--- Pat
Pat
Was that a test!?!?! Thankfully I passed...
Maybe I'll drill such a hole to mimic your technique. Thanks for the insight -- didn't want to make new holes without knowing what was "supposed" to be there.
I'm slowly figuring out that it's basically "whatever works for you", but with no experience it's a little trickier.
Thanks!
Liane
Pat:
Thanks for posting the link. That answers another question I had on another thread.
Liane:
My cp-16 has a topping lift, too. Hole drilled in same place Pat reffers to. Braided line threaded through the hole tied with a figure 8 stopper knot. Other end looped through aft end of the boom (there's hole) and tied with a taught-line hitch. This is an adjustable knot, very convenient.
Keep us updated with the keel project, too. :)
Pat: the number on the sail is 141. What does that mean?
Paul: keel project done -- it ain't purty, but it held -- didn't take any water on, didn't sink, seems to hold up. Haven't fixed up the inside, just got her sail-able and went for it. Woo hoo! It was fun.
Liane
Liane,
Glad to hear from you. We were all wondering where you went, and more importantly, if you got back ok. Apparently, you have boat #141. Kind of an honor as it one of the early ones. Read up on K3v1n's first sail, as it's well worth the time. He did very well, and has some experiences you may identify with. September is my anticipated launch. The last time Suzy and I were out was in 1989 --- she found the pictures! --- Pat
So, did you read the bit about the bowed mast?
Any ideas on how to straighten it out?
#141, does that mean the 141st boat made? what's the number mean?
Not that I was afeared of yer keel falling in the dark depths of the ocean or anyhting:)
Glad the repair was a success. It don't have to look pretty. Just need to do the job.
You can check the serial number on the starboard corner of the stern. See the serial number post for details. The sail number and the serial number will probably match up. Incidently, there is a serial number half way down one of the bunks. I think its starboard side, too.
Hey Paul
there is a "141" in the HIN. I'll check it out!
Liane
Yes I also have added a block of wood under my mast to help with adjustments to the turnbuckles. I guess it is about 1/2" thick, started with 3/4 but it was too much. I'll try and get a picture up of what I did.
-Kevin
Here ya go!
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d41/knlanf/step2.jpg)
The block is 3/4" thick with the area under the mast cut down to about a 1/2". The ends sticking out and around help hold in place.
-Kevin
Hi Kevin,
That is a really elegant solution. Might just copy it myself as it is a pretty bit of woodwork -- do you have any problems stepping the mast over it?
My keel is almost finished, just need to gel-coat the Interlux 2001 epoxy primer. Looks really good. If I can figure how to upload pics, I have digital shots of the entire rebuild process.
Been thinking about Liane bending the mast. If one were to bend it forward, the lee helm might be abbriviated a bit, maybe she is on to something, or perhaps she just likes machinists ---
May have to send the mainsail off to be resewn, as I remember it as having been blown a bit out of shape. Haven't taken it out of the bag since 1989! Any suggestions as to who to contact? ---Pat
hey Kevin
your craftsmanship totally puts my Sanford and Son approach to shame.
keep up the good work.
someday when I'm rich and get a really big boat I'll hire you to do the woodwork.
Liane
You guys give me too much credit, of course it does help that I am a carpenter by trade. ;)
The block works great and I have no problem stepping the mast over it. A couple times the jib sheet has gotten caught on it though but not often enough to change the design...yet.
-Kevin
Hey guys
What does it mean "...the lee helm might be abbreviated..." ?
The machinist was able to really straighten it pretty well -- there is a tiny warble where the biggest part of the bend/bow was, but I don't think most people would even notice unless you're looking for it.
"Lee helm" is when the feel in the tiller wants to steer the boat to leeward, ie downwind.
"Weather helm" is when the feel in the tiller wants to steer the boat to weather, ie upwind.
Ideally, you wnat a little weather helm, so when you let go of the tiller, the boat will point into the wind. Several reasons you want this, one of which is if one should go overboard or something else that takes the skipper away from the helm, the boat will simply point into the wind instead of sailing away downwind.
Anyway, "lee helm abbreviated" would imply to me that the tendancy for the boat to steer itself downwind would be lessened. That would be a good thing. ;)
At the same time, sailors don't like excessive weather helm. That, essentially, is like putting on the breaks. You might see this happen if you're sailing to windward and the boat heels excessively. You have to pull the tiller to windward (sometimes feels like a fight) in order to keep the course you're trying to steer. You'll easily feel this if you have the original rudder. That's why so many folks who have tried the Idasailor rudder, love it so much. Reduces weather helm to the ideal place of just-barely-there.
Probably more info than you asked for, but the caffeine is really hittin' hard now. :)
idasailor rudder.... hmm.............. maybe the cost is worth it then.
on another note, the sanford & son approach ain't all that bad.
i dig the tympanic rhythm guitar work (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/sounds/sanfordandson.wav). (warning, wav file from the vault of timvp.com (http://www.timvp.com/sanford.html))
When I got my 16 the turnbuckles were missing, I bought new ones from bluewater in St.Pete but when I steped the mast the rigging would not tighten up, so I relocated the attachment point on the mast{up 3 inches] been sailing since, I like the block idea,didn't think of that. Thats why we need a place like this to share ideas
I found the Idasailor rudder and raking the mast forward a bit dramatically improved my CP16/3 performance. It is a great sailing boat after these "tweaks". The Idasailor rudder also makes a huge improvement with low speed handling during docking, etc. The foiled blade pulls you around rather than dragging you.
Gil:
I have the same experience. Rake the mast forward and use the Idasailor rudder for best performance. I can't help but wonder if that's really the solution to the mast step problem. I suppose if one replaced the turnbuckles with a different size (longer) that would cause the need for the step/spacer. Just thinkin' outloud.
s/v Little Wing has original gear. Forestay turnbucke is tightened down almost all the way. Shrouds' turnbuckles are just showing thread; open quite a bit, yet tight. This set up yields said mast rake. Performance is good. Hope this helps.
Well, told you guys that as soon as I finished the Teddy B restoration, we would have a hurricane aiming for us here in Fl. I think that they are tracking one of my daughters, Megan.
HI Y'all... Just noticed this thread... I was trying to rake my mast forward when I ran out of thread on the forestay turnbuckle. I made this little spacer to raise the mast about an inch... I now have plenty of play and my mast is tuned forward just enough to balance the boat perfectly.
As always with me... here's a couple of illustrations... Please excuse me if you've already seen these.
http://www.com-pacowners.com/4images/details.php?image_id=486
http://www.com-pacowners.com/4images/details.php?image_id=488
What I really like most is the way the pin from the vang now is rigidly set into the piece... I don't even worry about it pulling out.
Going Sailig day after tomorrow... we have a FRONT bringing in some DRY refreshing air! Fall is on the way.