Been looking and wishing for over a year. I think the CP 19 is the answer. However, I'd like some feedback on the 19 in rough seas. Thinking I'd like to voyage out to Block Island, Nantucket, Vineyard, from Rhode Island and then from Florida to the Bahamas? Looking for some challenges and want to have fun, but don't want to be stupid.
Love some opinions.
Thanks,
Molson
I love my 19, but she's not much fun in rough seas. I'm not concerned about capsizing or survival - it's just that the same flat bottom that makes her so stable also makes for a pounding ride when the sea gets choppy. I think other 19 owners will confirm. You'll probably be happier with a different hull shape if you plan to do a lot of sailing in rough water.
Wes
The boat can handle it....but can you! The Bahamas thing is doable but the 19 may not have the storage needed for an(comfortable) extended cruise to the Bahamas. The others should be fine since you will be in USA waters and infrastructure. The Gulfstream can be an issue for smaller boats and a bit of a slog depending on conditions.
That's great advice. Thank you for the "been-there-done-that" advice.
Mark O
The CP19 is a great boat, but I agree with Wes here. She will pound in steep choppy water. This is the only area where I feel the 19 lags behind others.
I find that if waves are about 3' and steep-crashing as they hit you (as opposed to rolling offshore waves), it slaps it's bottom on the wave with regular frequency. Those conditions rarely occur on our lake, so it's not a big deal to us, but in rough waters I would rather have something that slices through the chop, like an Eclipse, Horizon Cat or 23.
Having sailed a 19 for 5 years now, granted only on inland lakes, I would trust it to handle the coast and off to the Bahamas assuming decent weather. She is a little yacht in every respect including seaworthiness. But unfortunately her Achilles heal is pounding in rough waters.
I would be looking at an Eclipse for rough water...they slice through waves like hot knife through butter.
Just my $.02 (leave change if needed!).
I agree with your comments, Salty, from my previous ownership of a 19. The suncat did much better, as does the 23. I am surprised about the comments on the Eclipse though, since it's the same boat, with some little changes; I haven't seen one in the water at all, though, and if it does better, then those changes were good ones!
I think if I was taking a 19 across to the Bahamas, I would focus most on my motor and get across to safety on the straightest course and as fast as possible. Lots of sailing and exploring once you are there.
--Randy
Quote from: BruceW on January 16, 2015, 05:28:33 PM
I am surprised about the comments on the Eclipse though, since it's the same boat, with some little changes; I haven't seen one in the water at all, though, and if it does better, then those changes were good ones!
If you mean the 19 vs Eclipse, the hull design of the CP19 and Eclipse are different. The eclipse keel is 6" shallower, the entry is finer and plumb. The bottom forward section of the 19 is pretty flat..that seems to be where water gets trapped.
Now I don't mean to say that the 19 can't handle rough water because it absolutely can but in the right conditions it will pound more than other smaller Com-pacs.
It's probably a lot less dramatic than we are making it sound by using the word "pound"--it's really a "slap", but it would be unfair to say it's smooth as glass in rough water thus the comments.
two things i think help the eclipse (having sailed both boats) are the plumb sharp bow, as mike mentioned, and the centerboard/keel configuration. she cuts into the waves like my catalina and sails at a sharper angle of heel thans the cp19. the 23 and the 16 being wine glass hulls also smooth waves better. however, there isnt a more stable and safe 19 footer than the cp19
It definitely slaps more, some would say pound. And that is truly solely due to the flatter bottom setup. On Carlyle Lake during one CLR, It was insane to me how rough it was (some will remember what I am talking about, might have been my first CLR?) and that 19 just slammed em..... after some time I realized that by turning down and back up really helped.... well it was also a TON of work to do and very tiring. We ended up traveling at a softer angle, which tossed us about a bit, and motored back but this was due to being NEW sailors.
Had I had the Reefed main I would have been in better shape as told by Greene's at the dock. Would have helped stabilize a bit.
Out of all the boats I have worked on in my life, including boats others have said were the best built, I still think the 19 after having mine totally stripped down, construction wise, there is no better built boat to me that I have seen at this time in my life.
Mac
The CP-19 will take more than the skipper and crew can ... Such a short hull for such a long quarter wave. Not a good idea.
She'll not lay over even with the top-O-mast a mere 10 foot above the water.
She'll be uncomfortable in the chop and you'll get tired of banging your head against the inside of the low doghouse.
Being a relatively slow boat she'll not pull her bow up over rolling waves and may slide off back down into the trough 'tween waves.
You may even end up with less then zero forward progress. Don't ask me how I know this.
Look for a Flicka type boat.
skip.
shes 19 feet long weighs about 2000 lbs-----shes not 30+ feet and 6000+ lbs. shes well built (over built) roomy, comfortable and maybe one of the prettier girls at the dance-----but she isnt meant for much off-shore cruising
while sailing the last day of the '13 Florida 120, we encountered light winds but because of opposing currents, large waves.
the mrs was getting a little "uncomfortable" with the pounding so i reigned in the main sheet and we both sat on the lee side to put some heel on the boat.
with the heel, the pounding was reduced to a more comfortable slap.
remember, all boats are a compromise. a rounder hull will slap less, but will also rock more at anchor and when you step aboard.
small boats will always hobby horse or pound more than their larger non trailer-able cousins.
CC
" with the heel, the pounding was reduced to a more comfortable slap. "
With heel you can't beat into the wind. Gentlemen never beat into the wind. That's crazy carl.
skip.
well...i've never been accused of being a gentleman.
CC
carl knows what captain bligh leaned the hard way-----keep the crew HAPPY
I haven't sailed a 19 but have heard what many have repeated above. The hull shape will tend to pound more.
"Thinking I'd like to voyage out to Block Island, Nantucket, Vineyard, from Rhode Island"
Where are you going to be launching in RI? I sailed a 23 in Narragansett Bay (out of Wickford) for 5 years. Great boat in the bay. I never took the 23 out into open water though.
Depending upon where you launch from be sure to play the tides. Just getting from Wickford to Jamestown bridge can be very frustrating if the wind and tide are against you. That is a bad combo with the short keel.
I bought a Sabre 28 this summer and brought it back from Groton, Ct. to Wickford. It was a nice weather day but for a fair stretch we were motoring into the wind and had decent waves on the bow. The LWL of the Sabre is only 2 feet longer than the 23 but the difference in how to two boats handle a head into wave situation was profound. The 23 would have been hobby horsing like crazy while the Sabre (with twice as much overhang up front and way more displacement) had a much slower, gentler motion. Even still the bigger waves almost stopped our forward progress. It was a slow process but not uncomfortable. The motion comfort rating on the 19 at 13.41 is slightly lower than the 23 at 13.94. For comparison the Sabre's motion comfort is 24.75. It would have been uncomfortable being in that situation with the 23, I think the added pounding of the 19 would have made it that much worse. Much less side to side rocking as well due to differences in keel, beam and displacement.
The prior owner of the 23 sailed out of Ct. and said he had taken the 23 to Block Island. If the weather is cooperating I'm sure she could do it. If the weather wasn't cooperating I'd think the ride could be pretty uncomfortable to downright scary if you headed out at a stupid time. I think the trip is about 16 or 18 miles from Wickford. If you are averaging 3 nm that is a 6 hour trip. Long time at the tiller alone, having a tiller lock or autopilot would make that considerably easier.
I think the most important thing for success on a trip like this is to not have a deadline. Don't go if the weather isn't in your favor. When you are there be prepared to stay longer if the weather turns sour.
Have good ground tackle, I've read the holding at Block Island can be questionable. Apparently during the weekends in the summer it is full of boats, many who are clueless so dragging boats are common. With the shallow draft you can probably get further out of the way of that sort of mess.
Doable in a 19, but not ideal.
Shawn
I love this "hobby horsing" reference. Everytime I read it I think of myself, riding on the cabin of my 19, yelling yeehaaaa, with a sickly face ready to puke as I ride waves like a kid on a hobby horse. I never have a cowboy hat though, that must have blew off in the wind.
Mac
Mac:
Having met you, I can see you also, Hos Cartright hat in one hand, the other hand on the mainsheet riding bucking bronco style! Yeehaww!!
Bob23
LOL, make sure you get the boots too.
I think on the trip back we were on that stretch for 3 or 4 hours. I had a copilot with me and we took turns napping in the cockpit. I doubt I could have done that in the 23, there would have been to much motion.
Shawn
Molson - This is exactly what I am hoping to do this coming summer, but with a CP 16... hopefully.
I have been to Martha's Vineyard and Block Island many times before and I would say that Shawn nailed it, wait for good weather and keep a close eye on the tides (the rips get ripping out there). Being fully exposed water, that area can get rough. I was once caught out between the Vineyard and Block in 14 foot seas on my father's 26' Wellcraft fishing boat. It was not fun and I would not have wanted to be on any boat smaller than what I was on.
I would recommend launching into Point Judith Pond at the boat launch there. If you google maps '100-136 Great Island Rd, Narragansett, RI 02882' you'll see it (just east of the bridge). As far as anchoring at Block, don't, just pick up a mooring in Great Salt Pond. There are dinghies that drive around and pick people up and bring them to shore for a small fee. It's a sweet spot.
I can't speak to the seaworthiness of a CP 19 or even the CP 16. I just sold my Pearson 26 and wanted a small project. I ended up buying a CP 16 in pretty bad shape and I am currently rebuilding her. I am hoping to make some improvements (lead ballast amongst other things) and beef her up a little bit. Good luck in your search for the perfect 19. And although I have only owned a CP for a few months let my pass on what I have learned: inspect the concrete ballast if you're shopping for one above the mason dixon line. :)
Tim
We are new CP19 owners with limited sailing experience; mostly smaller sailboats. We were out in over 20mph winds and 3-4 foot seas, gusting to 25mph. On a broad reach she ran along a 6.8 to 7.3mph under main alone. But when we turned around it was a brutal beat with the main reefed and the jib out about 1/3. Our speed dropped to around 3.5mph, the boat did pound and we got some spray once in awhile. Considering we had a long way to go on a beat to get back to our marina, I decided to motor back under bare poles. We were about 10 degrees off the wind/waves and it was a very rough ride, as well as wet. But the boat did fine, we just got tired of the rough conditions. Mind you, we're both 67 and don't have the stamina we once did. We won't venture out in these conditions again.
She is a very comfortable and able sailboat IMO in winds in the 6-15mph range, depending on chop and direction of course. Being retired we can chose when we go, and we intend to make some short trips for 2-4 days in duration. We're located on the Choctawhatchee Bay which can get pretty nasty when the wind pipes up. Seems we get mostly SW winds this time of year, perfect if you're heading east. One trip we intend to make is to Panama City/Andrews Bay, about 40 miles from us, and Pensacola/Mobile about the same distance to Pensacola, Mobile Bay being about 20 miles from Pensacola. There is a good mix of bay sailing and ICW motoring to make for an enjoyable time, weather pending of course.
I have no doubt this boat is capable of handling some pretty nasty conditions, but not sure we'd enjoy it. As many have mentioned, most decent boats will handle a lot more than the crew, or than what's desireable/comfortable. I have to say I'm quite pleased with her performance, she's not a slug IMO, but she's not a racing boat either, sort of an SUV on the scale. She's definitely well built.
Speaking of motoring, we have a Tohats Pro-Sail 6hp with 25" shaft. We motored back in heavy conditions at 4.5mph at about 1/4 throttle; the motor sips fuel too. I installed a Mac Pro-protector which is suppose to enhance thrust, although I don't have any way to measure this. Suffice it to say, everything works as designed, and works well.